NL200 zoom AsKd 4b pot OOP

I think river is x/f. Against such villain I would actually x/c flop but if x/x i would x/f turn/river.
Just look at his calling hands vs 4bet. I mean this guy is playing a lot of suited cards and small pp. I even believe BU/CO his fold24bet is very low. He just has too much value on such boards.

Agression would help but AKo even if you block flushes (only nut flushes) he has too many sc and sets.

Hey Bisovic,

Preflop 4b should be fine.

On flop I recommend a x/c here.

After flop goes x/x I don't think x/c is completely out there - but keep in mind this a pretty large bet-sizing for a 4bet pot so I'd likely just x/f.

Assuming we do x/c turn it's on the thin side so should be a pretty straightforward x/f river.

What combos do we call turn and river?
I guess hero is betting all value hands on turn
and is very cappt.

Originally posted by GingerKid
What combos do we call turn and river?
I guess hero is betting all value hands on turn
and is very cappt.

Often people use this an excuse for making awful calls on turn and river. "I'm capped and at the top of my range so I HAVE to call".

In reality this is more likely to mean hero should just include more strong hands in his checking range so that he's not capped (at least theoretically).

However, if we assume it makes sense to bet with most of our value range on turn from exploitative point of view, it should in practice just mean we fold an exploitable amount after we check, not that we should start calling down with junk because we are at the top of our range.

Hey weasel,
Id like to ask what is wrong with his bet sizing on the turn?

If I were buton here, Id bet this turn 58$ to not overbet on the river.
When he bets 45$ he has 170 left to 160 pot, so Id say he is bluff heavy on the turn cause with for example 66 he would bet bigger to make easy shove on the river.

thanks

Originally posted by sandraardnas
Hey weasel,
Id like to ask what is wrong with his bet sizing on the turn?

If I were buton here, Id bet this turn 58$ to not overbet on the river.
When he bets 45$ he has 170 left to 160 pot, so Id say he is bluff heavy on the turn cause with for example 66 he would bet bigger to make easy shove on the river.

thanks

Nothing actually wrong with his bet-sizing.

However, standard bet size in 4bet pot is usually closer to 1/3rd pot. It's certainly ok to make it larger while deep for the reason of setting up river stacks. I'm basically just acknowledging that the sizing is larger than we might typically expect to see in a 4bet pot and hence our defending range should tighten. So some hands that might be a defend vs a 1/3rd pot size bet become a x/f vs a larger size bet.

Also keep in mind that when we are deep there is no rule that says we have to play for stacks as part of a 2 street plan every time. Hero has checked twice in this hand and can be considered to have a weak range pretty frequently - so it's simply not necessary for villain to bet large. Having said that, there is not only one bet sizing here that could be considered correct, it depends on overall game plan. But in terms of exploitative bet sizing - if opponents range = weak, bet small.

Originally posted by w34z3l

Originally posted by GingerKid
What combos do we call turn and river?
I guess hero is betting all value hands on turn
and is very cappt.

Often people use this an excuse for making awful calls on turn and river. "I'm capped and at the top of my range so I HAVE to call".

In reality this is more likely to mean hero should just include more strong hands in his checking range so that he's not capped (at least theoretically).

However, if we assume it makes sense to bet with most of our value range on turn from exploitative point of view, it should in practice just mean we fold an exploitable amount after we check, not that we should start calling down with junk because we are at the top of our range.

I didnt suggest calling down, but wanted
to ask how to overcome the problem of
being so extremely cappt and not to lose
So much value by checking.
Could we bet turn with whole strong range
together with thin value hands like AK to narrow
down check range and at least have
bet range which is balanced?

Your question is partially answered - i.e we include some strong hands in our turn checking range.

As for the rest of our question, you are basically asking how we can still extract as much value as we would taking an exploitative line while still remaining balanced. I'm pretty sure this is impossible.

We want to go for max value unless we feel defending our checking range in a 4b is necessary vs this specific opponent.

In some cases this might not involve betting but may actually involve checking a whole bunch of hands on the turn because our opponent fires too wide vs a double check.

In other words we only extract the maximum being balanced if our opponent is also balanced - otherwise exploitative non-balanced line will have the highest EV.