KK Pre, Flop Shove

Hi giants,

This is deffinitely NOT a crystal clear shove on the flop. He is raising you after you cbet this board versus 2 players, this is a very strong move (even more at these stakes) so you do not have a profitable shove here, he will only show you 2pair, sets and combo draws, a range you're doing really bad. You should not be shoving this type of hand against very polarized ranges.

So you either fold right away, which I think it's the correct exploitative play without further info. Or you call and see a turn OOP.

I get that a shove isn't the best move Isn't a fold a bit weak?
Checking my HM2 Equity I have 52%Eq

I understand he looks strong raising in a multiway but still.

Originally posted by ggiants81
I get that a shove isn't the best move Isn't a fold a bit weak?
Checking my HM2 Equity I have 52%Eq

I understand he looks strong raising in a multiway but still.

It's not weak as long we realize that we are exploiting villains tendency to not bluff raise flop. Where did you get that 52% equity? If villain is only raising 2pair+ and combo draws we do not have that equity. And villain does not have Qx in his raising range.

I just saw the equity% on the hand in my HM2, you know ,theres a column All-in and besides it its a column with Equity%.
But I do understand what your saying that he most likely isn't bluffraising.
Nethertheless, If we give villain also AQ in the raising range,it's really close.

You seem so sure AQ isn't in his range, what makes you so certain? I just don't understand the thought process in that since that would give him TPTK, why not raise to se if PFR is for real, from villains point of view ?

Originally posted by ggiants81
I just saw the equity% on the hand in my HM2, you know ,theres a column All-in and besides it its a column with Equity%.
But I do understand what your saying that he most likely isn't bluffraising.
Nethertheless, If we give villain also AQ in the raising range,it's really close.

You seem so sure AQ isn't in his range, what makes you so certain? I just don't understand the thought process in that since that would give him TPTK, why not raise to se if PFR is for real, from villains point of view ?

Seeing that you have 52% equity against villain's particular hand tells you very little. You should check your hand equity against villains whole raising range.

This is why you can't shove flop:

Board: Q♣T♣7♠
       Equity     Win     Tie
MP2    28.96%  28.96%   0.00% { KsKc }
MP3    71.04%  71.04%   0.00% { TT, 77, QTs, AcJc, Jc9c, Ac7c }

You're doing very badly against villain stack off range. Of course that if villain raises and calls your shove wi th AQ you have a slightly profitable shove, but that would be a very bad play by villain. Why? Because, again, If Hero is value shoving a range of TT, 77, QQ, QT and combo draws, why would villain raise and call shove with AQ?

As for raising with AQ is the same story, AQ does not have enough value to raise cbet flop in a multi way pot against an uncapped range (by that I mean Hero has all the nut hands: sets, 2pairs, combo draws, KK+).

EDIT: Please, next time click "call the judge again" buttom on the bottom right corner of the screen.