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Bad beat or bad play, full house vs bigger full house on the river

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GMC989898
Joined: 17.06.2011

Hand converted with online PokerStrategy.com hand converter:

Play hand

$0.02/$0.05 No-Limit Hold'em (6 handed)

Known players:
[tg]MP2$5.00:///////;MP3$6.22:///////;CO$6.87:///////;BU (Hero)$8.61:///////;SB$5.59:///////;BB$5.00:///////;[/tg]

Preflop: Hero is BU with 4:c, 4:h.
3 folds, Hero raises to $0.15, SB folds, BB calls $0.10.

Flop: ($0.32) Q:h, 4:d, 7:s (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $0.20, BB calls $0.20.

Turn: ($0.72) Q:c (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.

River: ($0.72) 6:s (2 players)
BB bets $0.55, Hero raises to $1.30, BB raises to $4.65, Hero calls $3.35.

Final Pot: $10.02.
Results follow:

BB shows a full-house, sixes full of queens(6:d 6:h).
Hero shows a full-house, fours full of queens(4:c 4:h).

BB wins with a full-house, sixes full of queens(6:d 6:h).

I should first say that I don't have any stats on this player so I played the hand as I would have played againsts any random player.
My thinking on each street goes like this:

On the flop. Decided not to slow play as on this kind of borad my c-bet is expected and therefore was hoping for bluff raise.

On the turn. After a call and check on the turn I put him on A7, A8-AJo or medium pocket pair. I checked because a bet would cause him to probably fold these hands and therefore was hoping to get some extra value on the river.

On the river. I raised because it would seem as a bluff from me after a check on the turn and he would still call with that range. Called all-in and was expecting slow-played queen with weak kicker but it was bigger full house.

So should I folded or is it just bad beat? After analysing this hand I think I played it correctly. I assume he would have folded the turn and called the river if he hadn't hit one of the two outs. But my mistake was that after he shoved I put him on the different hand than on the turn, so if he hadn't queen then only bigger full house would make sense for this move and I should have folded.


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8 replies

Well turn check is a bad play. If he has Q, you are printing money there, I also see some pocketpairs paying you off on that turn (also A7). You really think that he would be willing to pay more on river then on turn(if checked like you did) if river is K, J, T, 9, 8 (or even lower, where possible straigh might me completed)? Q was a great card for you and not too scary for him. That's my opinion. I would bet turn anytime vs anyplayer.


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Tomaloc
Joined: 17.01.2011

rekt

your xbh turn/raise river is never a bluff on this runout. i literally can't remember the last time i saw a bluff there


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kevin2001
Joined: 14.02.2009

Bet the turn! I dont know if theres a good enough reason to check back this turn. Why did you not put any Qx in his range on the turn??


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nitrol
Joined: 24.07.2010

In his preflop calling range villain has a ton of Qx. You must cbet turn.


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GMC989898
Joined: 17.06.2011

Originally posted by kevin2001
Why did you not put any Qx in his range on the turn??

Because he checked the flop and then checked the turn also, if he had queen he probably would bet to know where he is in the hand.


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CPallo
Joined: 12.04.2012

Hi,

Definitely going with bet/bet/bet(shove) line here.

You said you didn't include 66 in his range after flop bet. You should try to think about his ranges and that way visualize what hands he could have - what hands are calling pre-flop opening and continue aftter the flop bet?

I think in that case 66 could still be in his flop calling range.

Turn was a huge mistake - now he can't believe that you have Q (or it should be less likelier), so you miss a value-bet. And if he had a queen there himself, you would most likely get ch/raised here or by the river at least. By checking you are losing value against many hands.

Never giving up that river. When you check the turn he can still have all the queens in his range that he now bets, coz you checked turn.


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amater0001
Joined: 07.04.2011

I go broke here any line (even otf) when effective stack is 100bb.
But not betting turn is a mortal sin through my fishy eyes ...:f_cool:


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Not betting turn here is a mistake from my point of view.


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