Top Two on turn wet board

Any info on CO?

I could even 3-bet this hand against some players, against some I wouldn't.

On flop I think check/raise would be better as you can build up the pot and on such a drawy board he won't believe you as often as on other kinds of boards. If he is passive though I would donk.

Turn is a nasty one. Yes, we have top 2 pair, but he raises quite big here and players rarely bluff on NL2 on turn.

If he has even some combos of KT and K8 there, you could go for it. It's a crying shove, but you can't call and it seems too good to fold on these positions.

After x/r flop,what will be your plan for the turn? Shove on blank card?

Originally posted by nitrol
After x/r flop,what will be your plan for the turn? Shove on blank card?

Just continuing with 2/3+ bet. If he calls that, he is making it with bad odds and we are most likely going to make profit in the long-run.

About the hand itself.. After sleeping well I think a donk is ok line versus some unknowns, as players on NL2 tend to be quite weak and passive in general. And we don't definitely want a check here. But against a known reg, definitely check/raise to build up the pot.

turn is a nasty one. Yes, we have top 2 pair, but he raises quite big here and players rarely bluff on NL2 on turn.

have you really played those limits ?

Originally posted by CPallo

Originally posted by nitrol
After x/r flop,what will be your plan for the turn? Shove on blank card?

Just continuing with 2/3+ bet. If he calls that, he is making it with bad odds and we are most likely going to make profit in the long-run.

About the hand itself.. After sleeping well I think a donk is ok line versus some unknowns, as players on NL2 tend to be quite weak and passive in general. And we don't definitely want a check here. But against a known reg, definitely check/raise to build up the pot.

The flop is ok. The main point for concerns is the turn. Is just calling better?

What is the range with which he would raise pre, call flop and x/r turn? Something like that?

Preflop: 22+,A2s+,K7s+,Q8s+,J8s+,T8s+,97s+,87s,76s,65s,54s,A7o+,KTo+,QTo+,JTo

Flop: JJ,A8s,KQs,K9s,JTs,T8s+,AhQh,AhJh,KhJh,QhJh,AhTh,KhTh,QhTh,Ah9h,Qh9h,Jh9h,Qh8h,Jh8h,9h8h,Ah7h,Kh7h,9h7h,8h7h,Ah6h,7h6h,Ah5h,6h5h,Ah4h,5h4h,Ah3h,Ah2h,AQo-ATo,A8o,KTo+,QTo+,JTo
Turn:
JdJh,JdJs,JdJc,AJs,AhQh,KhJh,QhJh,KhTh,QhTh,JhTh,Qh9h,Jh9h,Qh8h,Jh8h,9h8h,Kh7h,8h7h,AJo,KdTc,JhTd,JsTd,JsTh,JcTs

Originally posted by nitrol

Originally posted by CPallo

Originally posted by nitrol
After x/r flop,what will be your plan for the turn? Shove on blank card?

Just continuing with 2/3+ bet. If he calls that, he is making it with bad odds and we are most likely going to make profit in the long-run.

Originally posted by nitrol

Originally posted by CPallo

Originally posted by nitrol
After x/r flop,what will be your plan for the turn? Shove on blank card?

Just continuing with 2/3+ bet. If he calls that, he is making it with bad odds and we are most likely going to make profit in the long-run.

About the hand itself.. After sleeping well I think a donk is ok line versus some unknowns, as players on NL2 tend to be quite weak and passive in general. And we don't definitely want a check here. But against a known reg, definitely check/raise to build up the pot.

The flop is ok. The main point for concerns is the turn. Is just calling better?

About the hand itself.. After sleeping well I think a donk is ok line versus some unknowns, as players on NL2 tend to be quite weak and passive in general. And we don't definitely want a check here. But against a known reg, definitely check/raise to build up the pot.

The flop is ok. The main point for concerns is the turn. Is just calling better?

I think betting yourself as villains are more likely to call worse than bet worse here.

No, no,what are you doing vs the raise is the question

I also sometimes 3bet this hand pre in this spot, here I didn´t. I like the x/r option on flop a lot, I just think that I was multitabling and did just automatically bet out on the flop like I was the aggressor. Obv I was playing too many tables or just distracted. Anyway the lead itself is certainly not a big mistake in this spot. So on the turn, when our bet gets raised it is a weird spot since we can be almost sure he does not have KK and QQ and also not 88. The first two since we hold blockers (plus he would 3bet pre) and the latter and in general as a set would (and should) probably raise a donkbet on this flop. Therefore, we remove the sets and assume he folds TT on the flop we get: AA, JJ, AJ, KQ, KT, QT, JT, AhTh, Ah9h, Ah7h, Ah6h, Ah5h, Ah4h, Ah3h, Ah2h, Th9h. The first two in the row would also 3 bet frequently. We could have the sets in there as well, and TT, and, say, As8s but let´s just work with that for the moment. Against this range we can certainly call his raise (haven´t plugged it into equilab yet but there are so many flush combos and blocker/semi-bluffs it must be ok) and then it seems shoving makes sense as well because we want him to commit the rest of his stack in case he is behind. It´s just that I feel on these stakes players tend to play the flop aggro with their draws, less so the turn... so I think we can remove a bunch of hands that we beat from the range after his raise...still I don´t think it becomes a fold.

He cannot 3 bet you preflop as he raised and you called. So AA-22 and AK will be in his range.

AA will raise flop.

After his raise ott the question imo is if we should play for stacks. I don't think we have some fold equity. So after his raise we have to invest 1.98 to win a total pot of 4.30, so we need to be good at least 46%. I don't think we have 46% vs. his range. Do not know if my calculations and assumptions are correct.

I f we call the raise on what river card we are calling?

Raising turn is a mistake imo.

Oops, right I got confused there. Still, I think he rarely has a set on the flop for the reasons given above. But if we leave that in the range anyway, on the turn his range after raising looks more like:

AA-TT, 88, AJ, KQ, KT, QT, JT, AhTh, Ah9h, Ah7h, Ah6h, Ah5h, Ah4h, Ah3h, Ah2h, Th9h, As8s.

It could also look like this:

KK-QQ, TT, 88, AJs, KQ, QTs, AhTh.

Actually, since this was a zoom hand which I forgot to mention, the latter range seems more likely to me. So I would prefer bet-fold on the turn now.

Raising turn is a mistake imo.

I guess you mean my 3bet on the turn, not his raise!?

I have to admit, that most of the times when you get raised on that kind of board on turn you are beat unless his an agressive maniac.
I can't fold in this spots too, but most of the times he has a straight or a set like 10s

Originally posted by nitrol
No, no,what are you doing vs the raise is the question

I would rather call the raise on the turn because I don't expect him to raise draws. Some of them he would rather raise on the flop. I also don't expect him to rais AK on the turn. I would be planning to check/fold the river, unless I spike K or Q, because I don't expect him to bet worse hands there, not even KT.

Yes, I mean your play.

Originally posted by Alleen86

Originally posted by nitrol
No, no,what are you doing vs the raise is the question

I would rather call the raise on the turn because I don't expect him to raise draws. Some of them he would rather raise on the flop. I also don't expect him to rais AK on the turn. I would be planning to check/fold the river, unless I spike K or Q, because I don't expect him to bet worse hands there, not even KT.

If he is not raising you with draws then he does it with strong made hands that beat you and you have just 4 ( not sure they are clean) outs...

Originally posted by nitrol

Originally posted by Alleen86

Originally posted by nitrol
No, no,what are you doing vs the raise is the question

I would rather call the raise on the turn because I don't expect him to raise draws. Some of them he would rather raise on the flop. I also don't expect him to rais AK on the turn. I would be planning to check/fold the river, unless I spike K or Q, because I don't expect him to bet worse hands there, not even KT.

If he is not raising you with draws then he does it with strong made hands that beat you and you have just 4 ( not sure they are clean) outs...

I know, but there is still a chance that he has something like AK, KT or K8 and even draws are not absolutelly excluded. He still might have some of them. Given all that, I wouldn't fold two pairs on the turn, but if we decided to 3bet, I don't think we would be ahead of his calling range. I think that with 3betting we are isolating ourselves against better hands. I guess folding would also be an option, but 3betting is the worst option, imo.

Originally posted by Alleen86

Originally posted by nitrol

Originally posted by Alleen86

Originally posted by nitrol
No, no,what are you doing vs the raise is the question

I would rather call the raise on the turn because I don't expect him to raise draws. Some of them he would rather raise on the flop. I also don't expect him to rais AK on the turn. I would be planning to check/fold the river, unless I spike K or Q, because I don't expect him to bet worse hands there, not even KT.

If he is not raising you with draws then he does it with strong made hands that beat you and you have just 4 ( not sure they are clean) outs...

I know, but there is still a chance that he has something like AK, KT or K8 and even draws are not absolutelly excluded. He still might have some of them. Given all that, I wouldn't fold two pairs on the turn, but if we decided to 3bet, I don't think we would be ahead of his calling range. I think that with 3betting we are isolating ourselves against better hands. I guess folding would also be an option, but 3betting is the worst option, imo.

Man, you are perfect for politician or lawyer...
Now, put the joke aside, 3 betting is really worse on turn.