AT in 3 way pot oop

I think we could 3bet it preflop as a bluff because with calling we will end up out of position with not the greatest hand. As played, I like leading flop and turn. On the river, I don't see the BTN having 6x ever. I think we should rather check/call. As played, I wouldn't fold.

Your call preflop is the worse you can do. You do not want to play it in a mw pot OOP. You can fold, or you can 3 bet bluff.

Weasel's starting hand chart says it's a call HU, nitrol. It's true that getting ultra passive player along weakens our equity but also brings a lot of extra dead money in, so I'm not seeing it as bad as you. What about river then? Call or fold?

I would fold this hand preflop. If you 3bet and the fish call, it will give BU odds to call with wider range and you will find yourself again in difficult situation - with speculative hand, OOP, with the fish behind you and inflated pot.
As played, what 6x combos that iso raise fish preflop, call flop and turn and raise river you see in villains rainge? For what thin value you are going on the river?

Originally posted by pepevesterinen
Weasel's starting hand chart says it's a call HU, nitrol. It's true that getting ultra passive player along weakens our equity but also brings a lot of extra dead money in, so I'm not seeing it as bad as you. What about river then? Call or fold?

You are not HU. By calling you will invite the limper UTG with you and this weakens your hand a lot. Plus you are OOP.

First tell me why do you bet river?

I like preflop call to keep UTG in.

I like donk on F/T for value.

I no like R fold. Number of 6xs are very very low for this guy. 66 shouldn't be really be in his R range. 65s is a possibility.

At first glance I didnt really like the small donk on R, but its pretty awesome to get value w worse from UTG.

Imo, its wp except for fold. NIT!

lol at the debate if AT is a good flat call, it`s terrible to flat in this position 3way. river is definately a check

Originally posted by nitrol

You are not HU. By calling you will invite the limper UTG with you and this weakens your hand a lot. Plus you are OOP.

First tell me why do you bet river?

I bet river to get value from UTG's KT, QT, JT, T9, T8, Txs, 53s, 43s, 33, 77, 88, 99. I was also hoping that BU would only call if he got Ax in fear of bumping into 6x (thus letting me avoid hard decision). I even think that I might get some value from BU with small sizing, he only needs to win 13% to call (or less if UTG calls also).

Do you really think that Tx is calling a bet on a 4-to-straight board in a mw pot, where anyone can have the A? I don't think so. And as you got called by 2 on flop and turn, you do not have a legit bet on the river. River is a check.

Yes, nitrol, I really think calling stations are calling tiny bets all day long with TP, even mw on dangerous boards. I guess we just have to agree that we disagree on this

Betting vs 2 that called flop and turn is burning money, but if you like it.... it is your own business.

I agree betting third bullet with only TP would have been suicidal, but I rivered practically second nuts, don't you think, nitrol? I'm behind only 6x and how many of those do they have in their call flop, call turn range? Imo my biggest mistake was folding the river as ZeDowning said.

Thanks for actively responding anyway, it's been an interesting conversation.

Originally posted by pepevesterinen

Originally posted by nitrol

You are not HU. By calling you will invite the limper UTG with you and this weakens your hand a lot. Plus you are OOP.

First tell me why do you bet river?

I bet river to get value from UTG's KT, QT, JT, T9, T8, Txs, 53s, 43s, 33, 77, 88, 99. I was also hoping that BU would only call if he got Ax in fear of bumping into 6x (thus letting me avoid hard decision). I even think that I might get some value from BU with small sizing, he only needs to win 13% to call (or less if UTG calls also).

This is a pretty big range that you expect to get calls from. Why didn't you bet bigger then? What if UTG decides to push his A, thinking he has the best hand:)? If BU is thinking player he is absolutely aware that you don't have the 6.

Originally posted by VaskataBuci
This is a pretty big range that you expect to get calls from. Why didn't you bet bigger then? What if UTG decides to push his A, thinking he has the best hand:)?

UTG is a passive calling station. I think its perfectly alright to expect calls w worse and not expect him to raise (passive!) second nuts 3 way. Betting bigger might actually make him fold worse.

Tbh, now thinking about it, its quite possible BU can turn his SDV into a bluff. So now I hate the fold even more

If you hate folding the river, then you should have x/called it.

"This is a pretty big range (KT, QT, JT, T9, T8, Txs, 53s, 43s, 33, 77, 88, 99)
that you expect to get calls from."

UTG limper is 44/2 and doesn't fold easily, if he have even something. I'm betting only 3.20 to 17.50, so he must invest 3.2 to win 20.7€. Would you fold a TP to some measly 18% pot sized bet if you have any doubts villain might be bluffing? Would a calling station fold?

It is even theoretically right to call more when bet is small and pot big.

"Why didn't you bet bigger then?"

With bigger sizing I wouldn't have got calls from weak hands. I wanted to get called by TPs, two pairs, sets, mayby even some weak pairs. If I would have potted or pushed, I would have get calls mainly from Ax and 6x and there's no value for me there.

"What if UTG decides to push his A, thinking he has the best hand ?"

He seemed so passive that he would push only 6x, but don't know really. It would have been tought. Especially since his range contained much more 6:s than BUs.

"If BU is thinking player he is absolutely aware that you don't have the 6."

Mayby so, but this is NL20 after all :). If he knew my range was capped and bluffed, good for him. I was very close to calling thought, because his range didn't had many sixes either. I thinked my time and folded mostly because of his big sizing, but now I think his range contained mostly aces and perhaps some random bluff and I made a mistake.

The preflop move is a losing one but let`s ignore it and go to the river. He doesn`t really have a 6 which makes any sense and if this ridiculously small bet sizing is not meant to induce or get a crycall the why are we betting? As played i am snapping it expecting to chop a huge percentage.

With this bet size it is more likely to induce bluffs from BU imo. The fish would not fold much from the above to half pot size bet.