Badly played QQ?

Originally posted by xen0nx
Hello Everyone.
Here is the hand in question:
I put him on a range of (KK+,AKs,AKo) because of his Preflop 3bet, so rather than 4bet him, since i am 1:1.5 dog, but i think have high implied odds if i do hit my set and will likely stack him.
- XenonX

Apart from AA every hand you put him on beats you

Later adds...(oops)

So you reckon its an easy fold, because you only think he would re-raise with KK or AA in this spot?
My experince with NL2 is that people is having a hard time folding TPTK/Overpairs, but maybe i am wrong.

Maybe they call down light (well fish do this), but this is a little different being a 4 bet shove on the turn in a 3bet pot.
I am probably reluctantly call there, I suppose, probably put him on a wider range than you do, but only 7 hands.
I am often wrong, my suggestions are often disputed, and if I was selling advive I would be on fraud charges
:-)
PS I didn't "reckon" anything, simply stated he had a hand that you put him on

I don't think he is that tight preflop. Calling the 3bet is a standard here. I expect him to bet KK on this kind of flop, so I would mainly discount it. That means that we should go broke on this turn card. Well played!

Originally posted by GoOnCal1

Originally posted by xen0nx
Hello Everyone.
Here is the hand in question:
I put him on a range of (KK+,AKs,AKo) because of his Preflop 3bet, so rather than 4bet him, since i am 1:1.5 dog, but i think have high implied odds if i do hit my set and will likely stack him.
- XenonX

Apart from AA every hand you put him on beats you

There are no jacks on the board (so no straight for the AK) - isn't he beating all hands except KK? (I'm guessing you misread the hand, but hoping and praying I haven't!!)

I do not think we can discount KK here completely.

First I don´t like playing so deep on the zoom but if you are comfortable about it, then it´s OK. Vs unknown I would play the same way.

I wouldn´t discount KK from his range

I wouldn't discount KK completelly, too, but the way he played it on the flop usually means that he doesn't have KK because he wouldn't be too happy with giving a free card. I expect him to cbet KK most of the time on this board. I doubt that he is trying to balance his bluff check/raises and check/raise a monster there because people generally don't have a bluff check/raising range when they miss to cbet. There is a possibility that he is just trying to extract more value (induce something) with a check/raise, of course.

+1 for the "well played" crowd.
You state that you were willing to fold on the flop. That is wise.
The turn gives you a hand that beats all his range (as you supposed) except KK

Here is what Equilab says your equity OTT is:

Board: K♦5♠8♠ Q♥
       Equity     Win     Tie
MP2    16.13%  16.13%   0.00% { KK+, AKs, AKo }
MP3    83.87%  83.87%   0.00% { QQ }

There are only 3 combinations that beat you.
Can you profitably throw away trip Queens for 3 combinations?

Another consideration is that there are other lines you might take, but none would change the outcome (except folding).

One last thought: His range may be wider. KQ is a possibility. Maybe not likely though.

Best of luck,
VS

Originally posted by Alleen86
I wouldn't discount KK completelly, too, but the way he played it on the flop usually means that he doesn't have KK because he wouldn't be too happy with giving a free card. I expect him to cbet KK most of the time on this board. I doubt that he is trying to balance his bluff check/raises and check/raise a monster there because people generally don't have a bluff check/raising range when they miss to cbet. There is a possibility that he is just trying to extract more value (induce something) with a check/raise, of course.

The way the hand is played ismore like KK than AK. KK can x/call flop. Nothing scary for him.
AK has to bet flop.

And I think we will go broke here anyway, so well played.

Originally posted by nitrol
I do not think we can discount KK here completely.

i agree, when fish 3bet UTG or even min 3bet and check A or K high boards my spidey sense starts tingling

don't think AA is check shoving the turn, not sure if AK plays like this but maybe.... i'd probablly call it off in game but reading the post before results on the turn I thought KK straight away but maybe the fact it's posted on forum sets me up already for the badbeat

AA and AK are betting flop for sure.

Originally posted by nitrol
AA and AK are betting flop for sure.

In reality, KK should have as well, I think.
Since he does not bet, perhaps QQ can bet/fold the flop, just in case.

It might have worked out cheaper in the long run...

Still think OP did the best he could with what he had.

Best of luck,
VS

Kxx board is scary for the opponents.

Thanks all for your input, some good points was made.

Looking at the input and my post again, i still think it was a good call.

And Allen made a good point that, he might have tried to get tricky and attempted a check/raise but it failed.
and if i would have bet the flop to get raise, then i would have folded. but KK is only 3 combos, so still feeling good about it