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Speed Poker - Turn Trips on 3-Flush Board

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MJPerry
Joined: 03.10.2011


IPoker, $0.10/$0.20 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: $28.69 (143.5 bb)
BB: $6.55 (32.8 bb)
UTG: $12.37 (61.9 bb)
Hero (MP): $28.82 (144.1 bb)
CO: $20.39 (102 bb)
BTN: $10.41 (52.1 bb)

Preflop: Hero is MP with J Q
UTG folds, Hero raises to $0.60, CO raises to $1.80, BTN calls $1.80, SB calls $1.70, BB folds, Hero calls $1.20

Flop: ($7.40) Q A 6 (4 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, CO checks, BTN checks

Turn: ($7.40) Q (4 players)
SB bets $3.70, Hero calls $3.70, 2 folds

River: ($14.80) 7 (2 players)
SB bets $8.80, Hero...

Villain is 19/13 with a 4.2 3bet over 137 hands.

Obviously QJs is not the kind of hand I usually call a 3bet OOP with, but getting 5/1 I was happy enough to try and flop two pair or better. I didn't, so check/folding flop is OK with me. It checks through though and then SB shows immense strength by betting out into three other players including the PFR and 3bettor. Can we find a fold on the river? Should I just cut my losses and fold the turn?

If you advocate a river fold, what's the worst hand you call flop and call river with?

If you call river, what range do you expect SB to have here?

If you jam river, can I have some of what you're smoking?


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14 replies
nitrol
Joined: 24.07.2010

By calling pre-flop you should have a solid plan for postflop. You have to be very careful on a Qxx/Jxxx flop.


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MJPerry
Joined: 03.10.2011

You give the most tilting answers on this whole site. Do you have some sort of bet that you need to post X times in Hand Analysis because you post everywhere and say virtually nothing 95% of the time. Your post here is utterly irrelevant given my explanation below the hand, plus I provided several questions.

Oddly enough, I didn't have a plan for flopping second pair then having the flop check through and turning trips and being bet into. What a fish I am.


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nitrol
Joined: 24.07.2010

I love you too, man.
But still, I advocate fold on river, as there is not a single combo that we beat there.


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vahan4
Joined: 28.05.2013

I would raise on the turn for protection against flush draws, and fold to a 4bet. The villain might be trying to take the pot on the turn with a pocket pair like :9x::9x: and put you on a draw, e.g. :Kx: J♣:, after you call. Of course, he may have :6x::6x: or :Ax::Qx: maybe also K♣:J♣:, hoping to check-raise the flop. He could also have :Ax: K♣: and :Ax: J♣: to check-call or check-raise the flop. So why don't you put all these combos on equilab and see if you get the right odds to call the river?
He can also have :Qx::Kx:


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vahan4
Joined: 28.05.2013

Just realized he couldn't do this with a pocket pair, because then the river bet wouldn't make much sense. So yeah, you're probably beaten.


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I love this. You go aggro on some forum spamer meanwhile:

I was happy enough to try and flop two pair or better.

I guess you just answered your questions yourself.


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Kalecia
Joined: 28.08.2015

If you call this pre and hit such hard I am never folding a river, because if you fold this what are u calling wiith ?


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nitrol
Joined: 24.07.2010

AQ obviously. :)


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MJPerry
Joined: 03.10.2011

Originally posted by nitrol
I love you too, man.
But still, I advocate fold on river, as there is not a single combo that we beat there.

lol sorry you just seem to have such a polarised posting range in that your replies are either sound and well thought-out or just not useful. At least you're balanced!

Do you think we can simply fold the turn? Obviously not playing this hand preflop at all sorts the situation right out, but as played if we're folding to a river bet on a total blank should we just give up on the turn even with trips?


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MJPerry
Joined: 03.10.2011

Originally posted by gAsheks
I love this. You go aggro on some forum spamer meanwhile:

I was happy enough to try and flop two pair or better.

I guess you just answered your questions yourself.

We must be looking at different hands because I'm not sure I see where I flopped two pair or better. Like I said, I was going to x/f the flop but then I got a free card which made things a bit awkward.

Also there's a pretty big difference between AQxQr and AQxQcccx...


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nitrol
Joined: 24.07.2010

We cannot fold on turn as we have a re-draw vs the flushes. As we do not improve we should fold on river....
But not all outs for the re-draw are clear... Tough to say.
And that is why I started the first post with we should not play it, but told in othet words.


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nitrol
Joined: 24.07.2010

As gor my forum balance, in your previous post you told me my range is 95% bluffs, so it is way too unbalanced, imo. :)
Have to work on that, tho.
Cheers.


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Originally posted by MJPerry

Originally posted by gAsheks
I love this. You go aggro on some forum spamer meanwhile:

I was happy enough to try and flop two pair or better.

I guess you just answered your questions yourself.

We must be looking at different hands because I'm not sure I see where I flopped two pair or better. Like I said, I was going to x/f the flop but then I got a free card which made things a bit awkward.

Also there's a pretty big difference between AQxQr and AQxQcccx...

How big is the difference? 1 combo? 2?

I assume those nit stats were referred to CO? And SB is unknown?

If you think about folding river, then why you called turn bet in first place since river changed nothing?
Hand just plays itself. I doubt its worthing thinking about it too much since this spot will appear probably next year.


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MJPerry
Joined: 03.10.2011

Originally posted by gAsheks
How big is the difference? 1 combo? 2?

... well on one board, villain can have a made flush. On the other, he can't. Which one is which is an exercise I will leave to the reader.

Originally posted by gAsheks
I assume those nit stats were referred to CO? And SB is unknown?

I have no idea why you would assume that.

Originally posted by gAsheks
If you think about folding river, then why you called turn bet in first place since river changed nothing?

The river changed something: it reduced my equity against a flush by around 23%...


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