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Zoom PLO 2 - UTG with K8QT

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Eetung
Joined: 22.03.2010

Well. Watch out for some realy terrible hands!

I have to apolegize to everyone in front for some bleeding hearts! But I guess you have to get use to it for the future. :f_drink:

PokerStars - $0.02 PL Hi FAST (6 max) - Omaha Hi - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 91.5 BB
SB: 92.5 BB
BB: 189 BB
Hero (UTG): 147 BB
MP: 143.5 BB
CO: 101 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has K♥ 8♠ Q♣ T♣

Hero raises to 3.5 BB, fold, CO calls 3.5 BB, fold, fold, BB calls 2.5 BB

Flop: (11 BB, 3 players) Q♥ 9♠ 8♦
BB checks, Hero bets 7.5 BB, fold, BB raises to 20 BB, Hero calls 12.5 BB

Turn: (51 BB, 2 players) 5♠
BB bets 43 BB, fold,

Sadly I have no reads or stats.

PreFlop:
I guess we have a decent hand to open. Not that great but ok I guess. We can Flop some wraps and hit a somewhat decent flush. But after
Top 2 vs pot raise not full stack
I believe this would rather be a fold. This hand does not play that great multiway and our flush would be often dominated.

FLop
We hit 2 pair on the flop. Pretty ok I guees. The board is rainbow. Sadly somwhat connected. We bet for 2 reason, do we? Value and bluff. It would not be a bluff. There is just no better hand that will fold the Flop. So it has to be for value. So what do we do if neither better hands fold nor worse folds? Just check I guess? A Queen will call. Some straight draws will call aswell. So a c-bet is fine I guess. The CO folds and the BB raises me. And I guess here is my biggest mistake. The call should be a fold. I guees Villain has nealry always the better 2 - pair, sets ( not that likley cause we blocking 2 of them. ) or the straight. So easy fold or is it? 4 Jacks for the absolute nuts. Probably even queens and eights for the nuts. So I guess I have 8 clear outs. If the 8 outs are truely clear we could call.

We pay 12,5 bb to win 38,5 bb (11 + 7,5 + 20). So we get little bit more then 3:1 pot odds. Need 'only' 62,5 bb ( 12,5 * 5 ). So I guess we get the missing 14bb on the river with no problem what so ever.

Turn:
The turn is a blank. Well I guess 67 is completed but the BB would not raise 76 on the flop. But after Villains big bet we are definitly beat. So I guess here is the fold correct.

Alternativ:
How would we play if the 9 was a small card? Like a 3♠:? But same action on the Flop? Hero cbets, CO folds, BB raises, Hero ???
Would it be more clearly that we are beat because the flop is even dryer then before? Our straight draw would not be avaible as well. So I guess not enough outs for calling profitable.

Well. In the end the hand is not as hard as I thought. Still not sure because the preflop play. Guess the rest is fine? Well writing helps a lot.
Ohh gosh. I am sorry. My thoughts are getting worse and worse with every minute I am typing! I am sorry! :f_drink:


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6 replies
Padelbro
Joined: 21.01.2010

Hand is not the worst, but loose open from UTG as you said.

Flop you cannot fold such small raise. That would be 10 outs (4 jacks, 3 queens and 8s) against made straight. You need to call 12.5 to 51 = 24.5%. You dont even need implied odds to make this call, but it's true that villain can have sets too and you need to be careful, but you're in position so calling is fine.

OTT you dont get right odds anymore for calling. You need to estimate, will you get enough implied odds if you hit, will villain call your valuebet if board pairs for example. Or can you maybe bluff spades, nines, fives?

This also smells like blocker play to me, but safest would be just believe he has it instead of stationing all the way to showdown


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Skodljivec
Joined: 17.12.2011

No reason to bet this flop in the first place. Your bet should always have a reason. What reason is there to bet this hand 3way? You are very far ahead of any pair, but are drawing really bad vs Q9+. Check flop like you said there. There are some cases in PLO when you bet purely for protection, but this is definetly not one of them on such a dry straight board.

The alternative scenario is definetly a call at least once. You cannot fold top 2 when at the same time you block the 2 sets that beat you unless you know villain is very very passive.


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Coach
Kyyberi
Joined: 09.07.2010

If you check the flop, opponents think that you don't have the straight. This is where things get complicated. You have to estimate if either opponent is understanding that and is capable of bluffing there. If they are, then check-folding would be terrible. So you should call if they bet when you check. This will lead into some trickier turn+river situations, which you should be prepared for when you cap your range.

If both opponents are passive and call happy, I would bet this in PLO2. Reason is value.

About preflop, one way to figure out opening range from UTG is to use ProPokerTools hand rankings. This hand is at 17% in six handed. At starting point I would advice to use 15% range or even tighter as a default.

edit: I don't think Skod knows how much people call in PLO2z. Average villain calls 2 streets here with 98xx. At least once with AA/KK/Qxxx.


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FlyingDutchm1n
Joined: 21.08.2012

Originally posted by SeagalSteven

Flop you cannot fold such small raise. That would be 10 outs (4 jacks, 3 queens and 8s) against made straight. You need to call 12.5 to 51 = 24.5%. You dont even need implied odds to make this call, but it's true that villain can have sets too and you need to be careful, but you're in position so calling is fine.

Not to sound nitpicky, but against the made straight there can never be 4 jacks as outs anymore as one is part of the made straight.


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benaars
Joined: 03.06.2010

Originally posted by Kyyberi

About preflop, one way to figure out opening range from UTG is to use ProPokerTools hand rankings. This hand is at 17% in six handed. At starting point I would advice to use 15% range or even tighter as a default.

Hey,
Where in PPT you can find such a thing as hand rankings?


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Coach
Kyyberi
Joined: 09.07.2010


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