NL20 Speed - QQ 150bbs deep

OMG, I would never put him on KK.
This call from him when bb already called ur raise made total no sense for this holding from my point of view... he should have raised.

was thinking in a set or TT that improved on turn, but never KK.

he has 4bet 20% and called vs 2 opponents? I call this bullshit ♦ wp i think

His flop donk overbet looks very strong to me, especially since villain is a bit nitty. His range looks like sets and very strong draws. On the other hand folding on the flop seems very nitty. Im also interested in this hand. Can we fold flop exploitatively here?

Originally posted by martinstids
he has 4bet 20% and called vs 2 opponents? I call this bullshit ♦ wp i think

Just 59h to look at such stat.
Anyway, if being readless = playing great poker... villain here deserves a nobel! ♠_biggrin:

Originally posted by kevin2001
His flop donk overbet looks very strong to me, especially since villain is a bit nitty. His range looks like sets and very strong draws. On the other hand folding on the flop seems very nitty. Im also interested in this hand. Can we fold flop exploitatively here?

For me, yes. I couldnt see any aggression stat in the pic stompy91 provided to us... but donking this overbet on flop in a mw pot seems really strong.

Wow. Tough hand. His huge over bet on the flop seems really strong to me, but it's hard to put him on KK when he just called your 3bet. And it's really hard to fold QQ with that board. Tough break, man.

MrPink578, still... we can easily put him on sets or something like that to find a fold.

On nl25 there are players that have balanced ranges - do not always raise/push AA ,KK. They move some value combos in their calling range.
In this case , just calling and play mw is a mistake from villain.
What bothers me most are the over bet donks. .. he will not do this with a weak hand... we can fold the turn at least.

Originally posted by Afulibador
OMG, I would never put him on KK.
This call from him when bb already called ur raise made total no sense for this holding from my point of view... he should have raised.

was thinking in a set or TT that improved on turn, but never KK.

A little note below the line: Here again the first comment is about the real hand villain had... Told you it decreases the credibility of your analysis.

At first I also was confused but then I recall (and looked up) a technique mentioned in Small Stakes Hold'em by Ed Miller on topic 'Calling A Preflop 3-Bet With Pocket Aces'. This technique is almost identical that villain uses here. They state in this book 'When you hold pocket aces, flat calling a 3-bet can greatly increase your chance to stack your opponent. Think about what hands you would 4-bet from the small blind (this is then a different situation) after a raise and roughly pot-sized 3-bet. Presumably that range is narrow'.

Let me know if you agree and also if you become tired of me quoting books

This is ok but the difference here is we have a cold caller of the 3b and we do not want mw pot, especially with KK...

Originally posted by nitrol
On nl25 there are players that have balanced ranges - do not always raise/push AA ,KK. They move some value combos in their calling range.
In this case , just calling and play mw is a mistake from villain.
What bothers me most are the over bet donks. .. he will not do this with a weak hand... we can fold the turn at least.

Thats surely a mistake. He is loosing great value pre. And if he play like this as a std... he is laying down a ton of ev.

Originally posted by nitrol

Originally posted by Afulibador
OMG, I would never put him on KK.
This call from him when bb already called ur raise made total no sense for this holding from my point of view... he should have raised.

was thinking in a set or TT that improved on turn, but never KK.

A little note below the line: Here again the first comment is about the real hand villain had... Told you it decreases the credibility of your analysis.

My analysis are always made without taking this in consideration... still, I m free to comment about what I find to be really interesting/different.

Originally posted by Hesticus
At first I also was confused but then I recall (and looked up) a technique mentioned in Small Stakes Hold'em by Ed Miller on topic 'Calling A Preflop 3-Bet With Pocket Aces'. This technique is almost identical that villain uses here. They state in this book 'When you hold pocket aces, flat calling a 3-bet can greatly increase your chance to stack your opponent. Think about what hands you would 4-bet from the small blind (this is then a different situation) after a raise and roughly pot-sized 3-bet. Presumably that range is narrow'.

Let me know if you agree and also if you become tired of me quoting books

Thats an interesting thought, and seems to be about having an unexpected hand... but in a mwp this is not a good idea at all.

Originally posted by Afulibador

Originally posted by nitrol

Originally posted by Afulibador
OMG, I would never put him on KK.
This call from him when bb already called ur raise made total no sense for this holding from my point of view... he should have raised.

was thinking in a set or TT that improved on turn, but never KK.

A little note below the line: Here again the first comment is about the real hand villain had... Told you it decreases the credibility of your analysis.

My analysis are always made without taking this in consideration... still, I m free to comment about what I find to be really interesting/different.

That is why all of us ask the posters not to give insight about the real holdings, so you cannot watch and cannot influence your analysis. It is funny though that your "analyses" always start with what villain is holding. This amuses me most.
And I am free to be amused and comment whatever I want too.

Originally posted by Afulibador

Originally posted by nitrol
On nl25 there are players that have balanced ranges - do not always raise/push AA ,KK. They move some value combos in their calling range.
In this case , just calling and play mw is a mistake from villain.
What bothers me most are the over bet donks. .. he will not do this with a weak hand... we can fold the turn at least.

Thats surely a mistake. He is loosing great value pre. And if he play like this as a std... he is laying down a ton of ev.

On higher levels balancing your ranges is important. He is not losing value there.

Originally posted by nitrol

Originally posted by Afulibador

Originally posted by nitrol

Originally posted by Afulibador
OMG, I would never put him on KK.
This call from him when bb already called ur raise made total no sense for this holding from my point of view... he should have raised.

was thinking in a set or TT that improved on turn, but never KK.

A little note below the line: Here again the first comment is about the real hand villain had... Told you it decreases the credibility of your analysis.

My analysis are always made without taking this in consideration... still, I m free to comment about what I find to be really interesting/different.

That is why all of us ask the posters not to give insight about the real holdings, so you cannot watch and cannot influence your analysis. It is funny though that your "analyses" always start with what villain is holding. This amuses me most.
And I am free to be amused and comment whatever I want too.

Sure, so am I.

Originally posted by nitrol

Originally posted by Afulibador

Originally posted by nitrol
On nl25 there are players that have balanced ranges - do not always raise/push AA ,KK. They move some value combos in their calling range.
In this case , just calling and play mw is a mistake from villain.
What bothers me most are the over bet donks. .. he will not do this with a weak hand... we can fold the turn at least.

Thats surely a mistake. He is loosing great value pre. And if he play like this as a std... he is laying down a ton of ev.

On higher levels balancing your ranges is important. He is not losing value there.

He is not losing value on flatting kings pre in this spot?

Think about it before writing. On higher levels you will get squeezed much more intensively and you have to defend your ranges. One of the things is to move some of the strong hands in your calling range. We are talking not about direct value, we are talking about value in the long run. You will not be that exploited which is +EV.
Now, think about it.