Skip to forum
Notifications
Clear all

NL20 speed - River bluff BB vs SB

11 Posts
9 Users
2 Reactions
1,528 Views
stompy91
Joined: 09.04.2012

Villain is a 14/9 over 71 hands.

Preflop i feel 3betting wins me the pot before the flop a lot of the time and if i get called i am in position after the flop.

Flop - I should have c-bet but knew i would only be called by an A a lot of the time so i decided to check back repping a PP or weak A.

Turn - I raise because i feel he will possibly fold out a weaker A without a flush draw and try to rep a strong Heart. When he calls i am sure he has an A and i'm pretty sure my river bet is a little spewy.

River - I feel i have shown strength when the heart came on the turn and i can get any A without a heart to fold by shoving, possibly even a very weak heart as the playing is very nitty.

IPoker, $0.10/$0.20 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: $22.24 (111.2 bb)
Hero (BB): $20.54 (102.7 bb)
UTG: $10.85 (54.3 bb)
MP: $5.85 (29.3 bb)
CO: $25.51 (127.6 bb)
BTN: $21.54 (107.7 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 8 8
4 folds, SB raises to $0.60, Hero raises to $1.80, SB calls $1.20

Flop: ($3.60) 2 6 A (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks

Turn: ($3.60) 9 (2 players)
SB bets $2.52, Hero raises to $6, SB calls $3.48

River: ($15.60) A (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $12.74 and is all-in, SB calls $12.74

Results:

Spoiler

$41.08 pot ($2.00 rake)
Final Board: 2 6 A 9 A
SB showed A J and won $39.08 ($18.54 net)
Hero mucked 8 8 and lost (-$20.54 net)

I am quite possibly being results orientated as this river completely shocked me at the time.


Reply
Quote
10 replies
kriko92
Joined: 16.11.2010

Preflop 3bet makes no sense to me. You said you expect him to fold much (which I don't really agree with, he seems nitty => stronger range) but 88 is really not the hand you want to bluff with, this is a clear call.
Flop check is fine, on the turn it's just easy fold. He has a strong range and bets big so he is most likely strong. Also your range is weak and you can't rep anything on that turn - FDs will cbet flop. Same applies for river, it's time to give up.
Btw you say he can fold a weak heart on the river but he doesn't have any of these in his range.


Reply
Quote
Alleen86
Joined: 27.05.2010

I don't like bluffing this hand preflop. I would also just call. As played, I don't like raising the turn, but when we raised with assumtion that he will fold Ax without a heart, I don't see a reason to bet the river when 4th heart came.


Reply
Quote
nitrol
Joined: 24.07.2010

Me too, do not like to 3 bet this hand for the given reasons.
Call, see a flop.
As played, we should fold on turn. With this raise you are burning money.
The river play is not ok too.


Reply
Quote
MisterSnS
Joined: 09.11.2011

You should really consider the consequences of 3betting hands like 88. In this spot we 3bet for these reasons:

a) Our hand is strong and We expect to get called by worse
b) Our hand is too weak to flat and we expect to get a lot of folds preflop
c) We are deep and want to decrease the stack-to-pot ratio to get stacks in easier (in case we hold a marginal holding, like a suited Ax or a PP like you have here)

Since none of these 3 points is fulfilled you should rather call and just see a flop in position. Your opponent, additionally, seem very tight which makes the 3bet even worse (you probably play against a very strong range that calls your 3bet).

As played I would cbet the flop to protect the hand vs. broadways (it sucks when you checkback the flop and he spikes a Q/K/J/T on the turn) + it makes the whole hand easier to play. If he calls you can comfortably give up.

Raising the turn after you checkback is pure spew because you would always cbet an Ace here, would you? That means your perceived valuerange is pretty much slowplayed AA. But on this limit people rarely fold an ace. If you checkbacked the flop to get bluffs from hands worse than Ax (like KQ) then you should just call the turn and give up on the river if he barrells again


Reply
Quote
Afulibador
Joined: 21.08.2009

No good in 3betting this hand pre.
If u get called, are in bad shape vs a range stronger than urs. If villain folds, u loose value on ur 88.


Reply
Quote
stompy91
Joined: 09.04.2012

I hate this hand so bad I've decided to take a day off just to review my thought processes and study more. Thanks for the feedback guys :)


Reply
Quote
MisterSnS
Joined: 09.11.2011

You are welcome :-)


Reply
Quote
SPeedFANat1c
Joined: 04.01.2009

Preflop i feel 3betting wins me the pot before the flop a lot of the time and if i get called i am in position after the flop.

yea, vs this nit, I think its also bad to 3bet. But if he is not nit , we might have folds or 4bets. Are you shoving vs a 4bet? Otherwise it sucks a bit to fold this hand preflop.

As played I would cbet the flop to protect the hand vs. broadways (it sucks when you checkback the flop and he spikes a Q/K/J/T on the turn) + it makes the whole hand easier to play. If he calls you can comfortably give up.

vs not nit, I think its a cbet for the reasons you mentioned. But since he is nit, he does not have most likely that many broadway hands which can fold. He has Ax, strong PPs, I think check is good.


Reply
Quote
marsa08
Joined: 30.01.2014

3betting bb vs sb is fine if you don't 3bet this hand every time.

As played you should cbet the flop to take pot down. A-high board should have a lot of fold EQ because its less likely that he will float with overcards (he can't have overcards) etc..
Cbet can also get value from Q♥:K♥: type of hands.

Checking flop is bad because you will rarely get to showdown in 3bet pot with this hand. -> you want to take pot down otf and collect the dead money

On the other hand checking flop is fine if you sometimes check your strong holdings here too like AK.

As played you can't raise turn because you can't really represent any strong hand and villain should call you down if he is a thinking player.


Reply
Quote
YohanN7
Joined: 15.06.2009

A partial comment: As played preflop, I think like some others that you need to bet on that flop. You can really represent an A. True, few worse hands are ever calling, but turning the hand into a bluff catcher is too enterprising for me. If I check flop, then I am done with the hand. I don't like to give up in 3-bet posts IP with initiative with weak holdings. I'd use that initiative and position and expect folds 40% (or even more) of the time or so to a 50% bet.


Reply
Quote