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I would like bet the river in bluff to make fold a better pair then mine on a terrificant board!

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kiromanAAKK
Joined: 08.10.2009

IPoker, $0.01/$0.02 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 5 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: $1.21 (60.5 bb)
BB: $2.02 (101 bb)
MP: $2.03 (101.5 bb)
CO: $2.09 (104.5 bb)
Hero (BTN): $2 (100 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BTN with T 9
MP folds, CO calls $0.02, Hero raises to $0.10, 2 folds, CO calls $0.08

Flop: ($0.23) 5 Q J (2 players)
CO bets $0.11, Hero calls $0.11

Turn: ($0.45) T (2 players)
CO bets $0.22, Hero calls $0.22

River: ($0.89) A (2 players)
CO checks, Hero?

villain - VPIP: 46, PFR: 22, 3B: 7, AF: 2.7, Hands: 46

Board definitely absurd to think to bet but also, would he check if he has valuable hand as despite his stack, from the stats (even so small sample) he doesn't seem a reg and imo I think this type of player will bet if his hand is strong. So, I think I would bet myself due the so scary board to make him fold any pairs that's got me!

Is it a wrong thinking processing?
Im really mad? :f_biggrin:

Thanks :)


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28 replies
MJPerry
Joined: 03.10.2011

It does seem weird for him to check Kx, but you'd have to bet pretty big to get him to fold because his range has a ton of two pair hands in it.

Also this is my favourite thread title of all time.


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nitrol
Joined: 24.07.2010

The sample is small snd we cannot make an educated guess what his Postflop tendencies are.
I will not bet on river.


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Dabobs
Joined: 10.06.2010

I think you played well. There is no reason to raise flop or turn.
You wrote that player didn't seem a reg. I think it means that you can't predict what he'll do after your bet on river and without strong hand it is check.


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kiromanAAKK
Joined: 08.10.2009

So far so bad for me ...

Waiting for some more comments (eventually) before telling you as a reward for your time and support because at this point I think
Im a really crazy mad suicidal! :f_cool:

Thanks guys :heart:


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inceptioner
Joined: 23.05.2012

Originally posted by kiromanAAKK
villain - VPIP: 46, PFR: 22, 3B: 7, AF: 2.7, Hands: 46

Check back river.


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nitrol
Joined: 24.07.2010

Originally posted by kiromanAAKK
So far so bad for me ...

Waiting for some more comments (eventually) before telling you as a reward for your time and support because at this point I think
Im a really crazy mad suicidal! :f_cool:

Thanks guys :heart:
Or a very lucky guy. :)


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kiromanAAKK
Joined: 08.10.2009

Originally posted by inceptioner

Originally posted by kiromanAAKK
villain - VPIP: 46, PFR: 22, 3B: 7, AF: 2.7, Hands: 46

Check back river.

I think that if I check back river I will not beat anything with my pair of Tens
Check is the equivalent to give up the hand and the pot
Would be a Bet the best option? (obviously, we bet in bluff here with the Hope that villain hasn't a K I believe that he will fold anything exception for the K of course)


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MJPerry
Joined: 03.10.2011

Checking is 0EV. Betting is probably -EV. Pick your preferred option.


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xxnub
Joined: 04.12.2007

If you want him to fold better hand than you should bet pot if he hero calls you with two pair than you should make a note and do the same when you have KQ


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nitrol
Joined: 24.07.2010

Originally posted by kiromanAAKK

Originally posted by inceptioner

Originally posted by kiromanAAKK
villain - VPIP: 46, PFR: 22, 3B: 7, AF: 2.7, Hands: 46

Check back river.

I think that if I check back river I will not beat anything with my pair of Tens
Check is the equivalent to give up the hand and the pot
Would be a Bet the best option? (obviously, we bet in bluff here with the Hope that villain hasn't a K I believe that he will fold anything exception for the K of course)

I bet and hope.... doesn't sound serious, man.
Pair TT has showdown value. If you bet you are pouring money into the pot and will get calls only from hands that beat you.
Villain will not lay down Kx.


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Originally posted by kiromanAAKK

Originally posted by inceptioner

Originally posted by kiromanAAKK
villain - VPIP: 46, PFR: 22, 3B: 7, AF: 2.7, Hands: 46

Check back river.

I think that if I check back river I will not beat anything with my pair of Tens
Check is the equivalent to give up the hand and the pot
Would be a Bet the best option? (obviously, we bet in bluff here with the Hope that villain hasn't a K I believe that he will fold anything exception for the K of course)

If you bet here, you're only going to get called by hands that beat you anyway. I'm assuming you only played this hand because you were the BTN, because you should have just folded pre flop.


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LuckyLucianooo
Joined: 05.08.2010

Originally posted by MJPerry
Checking is 0EV. Betting is probably -EV. Pick your preferred option.

Disagree. It's exactly the opposite. When you check you lose the pot almost every time. The only way to win the pot is to bet big. When people specially on the low limits see such a scary boards they just give up most of time. They are perfect for bluffing just for that reason.


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kriko92
Joined: 16.11.2010

Originally posted by MJPerry
Checking is 0EV. Betting is probably -EV. Pick your preferred option.

Folding is 0EV, checking is +EV. It is only slightly +EV here as it's hard to win on showdown but even very rarely we still win. It is an important distinction to make though because it is very useful in some spots and the reason why generally you don't want to bluff with showdown value.


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Afulibador
Joined: 21.08.2009

Originally posted by kiromanAAKK

Originally posted by inceptioner

Originally posted by kiromanAAKK
villain - VPIP: 46, PFR: 22, 3B: 7, AF: 2.7, Hands: 46

Check back river.

I think that if I check back river I will not beat anything with my pair of Tens
Check is the equivalent to give up the hand and the pot
Would be a Bet the best option? (obviously, we bet in bluff here with the Hope that villain hasn't a K I believe that he will fold anything exception for the K of course)

Man, if villain is a fish, he ll be more inclined to call u anyway than folding his hand. So its almost like chosing to lose this pot or an entire stack in a bluff.


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Afulibador
Joined: 21.08.2009

Originally posted by LuckyLucianooo

Originally posted by MJPerry
Checking is 0EV. Betting is probably -EV. Pick your preferred option.

Disagree. It's exactly the opposite. When you check you lose the pot almost every time. The only way to win the pot is to bet big. When people specially on the low limits see such a scary boards they just give up most of time. They are perfect for bluffing just for that reason.

Funny. For me, bluffing a loose fish is an inner willingness to burn money, most of the time.


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Afulibador
Joined: 21.08.2009

Originally posted by kriko92

Originally posted by MJPerry
Checking is 0EV. Betting is probably -EV. Pick your preferred option.

Folding is 0EV, checking is +EV. It is only slightly +EV here as it's hard to win on showdown but even very rarely we still win. It is an important distinction to make though because it is very useful in some spots and the reason why generally you don't want to bluff with showdown value.

Thats right, if we hold a five high hand, than a bet would be the only way to win it, what ends up being the +ev play if the villain actually folds enough. Still, against such opponent, I m more inclined to check it even when having no showdown value at all.


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Tomaloc
Joined: 17.01.2011

fold turn :f_eek:


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Afulibador
Joined: 21.08.2009

Tomaloc, u think we are that bad on turn?


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Tomaloc
Joined: 17.01.2011

what good things are you expecting to happen? we lose most of the time on blanks (either because he bets or just because he has a better hand), 9 is not fun, not even K is very exciting.
and here the A comes and we have to consider turning the hand into a bluff. the whole thing doesnt really look very profitable to me


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