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Picking up equity on the Turn

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diminem99
Joined: 06.04.2015

Hi everyone,

Here should I shove on the turn given the number of outs I have?
Is the river always a fold?

PokerStars - €0.05 Ante €0.01 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

SB: 144.4 BB (VPIP: 60.98, PFR: 19.51, 3Bet Preflop: 7.14, Hands: 44)
BB: 40 BB (VPIP: 23.53, PFR: 15.97, 3Bet Preflop: 3.03, Hands: 120)
UTG: 100 BB (VPIP: 14.89, PFR: 6.38, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 47)
MP: 96.8 BB (VPIP: 64.18, PFR: 5.97, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 69)
CO: 82.2 BB (VPIP: 21.42, PFR: 14.57, 3Bet Preflop: 4.65, Hands: 1,274)
Hero (BTN): 177.2 BB

SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB, 6 players post ante of 0.2 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 2.6 BB) Hero has T♥ A♦

fold, MP calls 1 BB, fold, Hero raises to 5 BB, fold, fold, MP calls 4 BB

Flop: (12.6 BB, 2 players) 9♦ A♠ J♦
MP bets 8 BB, Hero calls 8 BB

Turn: (28.6 BB, 2 players) 8♥
MP bets 18 BB, Hero calls 18 BB

River: (64.6 BB, 2 players) 3♦
MP bets 30 BB, Hero???


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11 replies

You have outs ott, but if you put your stack in the middle you will be often behind his range. So I would just call the turn.
The river is a hard decision. If he haven't made donk bets before I would give up otr.


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marsa08
Joined: 30.01.2014

Raise on the flop to ~24-28bb should be the best play here.

As played just fold river.

I don't like shoving on the turn becouse we dont know if villain got enough bluffs + you can be drawing to a split etc.


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nitrol
Joined: 24.07.2010

No need to raise. If you decide to call him down do not forget to make a note.


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marsa08
Joined: 30.01.2014

IMO raising here vs villains donk has higher EV than calling.

By raising we;
Get value from draws
Know if we are beat
Can extract more value easier on the turn
Can control the pot size
Can check back river.
We take back the initiative and it is easier to play

If we call;
We are guessing what villain has
Villain can bluff us out otr/ott
Its harder to play the hand overall without initiative.


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krasops
Joined: 02.02.2014

dont raise flop .. fold expo river.


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la55i
Joined: 27.01.2013

Answers to your questions:
No.
Yes.

If you shove OTT you will isolate yourself against stronger range. River is a fold clearly.

I would not raise his flop donk either.
By raising flop we:
Don't necessarily get value from draws and if we do we definitely do not know if we are really beat.
If villain calls our raise I really wouldn't say betting turn extracting value, it is more like donating money to sets.
I wouldn't say that pumping the pot by raising and then betting turn is potcontrol.


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diminem99
Joined: 06.04.2015

Thanks everyone for the analysis!


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nitrol
Joined: 24.07.2010

You are welcome. :)


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la55i
Joined: 27.01.2013

Originally posted by diminem99
Thanks everyone for the analysis!

No problem mate :)


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NatRPheM
Joined: 05.10.2008

I like how you played it without specific notes on villain, if you actually folded river.. you literally beat no value hands against a donk lead 3 barrel there, you have a bluff catcher and like I said earlier, without specific notes that the player is capable of this I wait for an opportunity that is better to find out if they are or not and then make a note.. lets say river is a T and he bet same I would sigh call for 2 reasons, I beat a few more hands like A8,A9,J9, maybe he even donks with 98 there and I beat 98 too, but more unlikely and secondly I would feel I was strong enough to justify getting that note.. wouldn't like it, but I would make the sigh call. I some times pay for information.. but the note earns me money long term for sure.


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YohanN7
Joined: 15.06.2009

Flop: Call. If you raise, are you raising for value or as a bluff? If you can't (you can't) answer that question, then you shouldn't raise.

River: If you are curious about what beat you, then check him out with AK, not AT. Checking him out with AT (and all better) makes you an exploitable calling station.


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