Straight x represented flush

I think he is usually not bluffing OTR, especially not with that size, and his play really does look like a rivered flush, so I think we should fold. Anyway, since the price is so good, I guess calling is not terrible, but I would rather fold.

Originally posted by Alleen86
I think he is usually not bluffing OTR, especially not with that size, and his play really does look like a rivered flush, so I think we should fold. Anyway, since the price is so good, I guess calling is not terrible, but I would rather fold.

What is OTR? Honestly, I think that fold is better here also and I was really thinking about that decision long time, but I just couldn´t fold top straight :(.

Originally posted by Mozzek

Originally posted by Alleen86
I think he is usually not bluffing OTR, especially not with that size, and his play really does look like a rivered flush, so I think we should fold. Anyway, since the price is so good, I guess calling is not terrible, but I would rather fold.

What is OTR? Honestly, I think that fold is better here also and I was really thinking about that decision long time, but I just couldn´t fold top straight :(.

OTR - on the river.

Yeah, flush is his most likely holding and I like the fold on river.
Can we xc?

Originally posted by nitrol
Yeah, flush is his most likely holding and I like the fold on river.
Can we xc?

What is xc? Like check call?

Yes, xc is check call xb is check back.

As played, I like x OTT

Originally posted by Hesticus
Yes, xc is check call xb is check back.

As played, I like x OTT
But turn gives us more outs, so I bet in order to build pot if we hit on the river, because if I don´t bet turn, I will have small pot on the river and if I hit, I´ll get less value, won´t I?

Well, nitrol, I think xc is pretty cool, maybe would be the best choice, because worse hand than two pairs wouldn´t call me anyway and if he has something he has to bet river, am I right?

Originally posted by Mozzek

Originally posted by nitrol
Yeah, flush is his most likely holding and I like the fold on river.
Can we xc?

What is xc? Like check call?

Yes, xc=check/call

IMO you did everything right and i am convinced that we have to call this minraise at the river even if there are a lot of flushdraws in his range. Our hand is just tot good of a bluffcatcher there and is even catching all the overplayed sets etc.

Originally posted by Mozzek

Originally posted by Hesticus
Yes, xc is check call xb is check back.

As played, I like x OTT
But turn gives us more outs, so I bet in order to build pot if we hit on the river, because if I don´t bet turn, I will have small pot on the river and if I hit, I´ll get less value, won´t I?

I understand your thoughts but it isn't the right way to think of the reason why you are betting. We only bet as a bluff or for value (a third option is capitalization of dead money but it can be regarded as a bluff).

The flop and turn hits villain's range and we cannot let villain fold his hands (no fold equity = FE). We also have no value hand (yet) so we cannot bet for value either.

So ask yourself this question always when you are in doubt: Can I bet for value? Yes ==> bet. No==> check.
Can I bet as a bluff (do I have FE)? Yes ==> Bet. No ==> check.

Hope this makes sense, otherwise do not hesitate to ask.

There are more concerns than that. If you conclude you have no FE, then if you still want to draw it is much better to bet yourself, thereby setting the cost. Letting him bet (he will, otherwise the "no FE" part must be wrong!) will cost more. As a very important side effect, you get to have initiative if you hit your draw. Otherwise, you have to donk when you hit. It is rarely profitable because the board will look scary and your actions would just scream of a drawing hand that hit. A follow up of your own turn bet is much easier to call, since you could have been betting everything the board on turn allows for.

Well played - except for one thing: Your bet sizes indicate you are drawing! No made hand bets like that on a drawy board.

Yeah, those half psb are giving away our hand.

Thanks guys, very helpful. I searched for some articels of FE and I think I understand it a bit now. Just one thing, I play micro stakes. I don´t really think that sizes of bets play a role there, but what sizes would you choose against decent players? 3/4-4/4 of pot?

On a wet board it may vary from 2/3 to pot size.

Originally posted by Mozzek
Thanks guys, very helpful. I searched for some articels of FE and I think I understand it a bit now. Just one thing, I play micro stakes. I don´t really think that sizes of bets play a role there, but what sizes would you choose against decent players? 3/4-4/4 of pot?

It depends on very many things. You can write books about it. Books have been written about it. One of the best, and when it comes to bet sizing the best, is No Limit Hold'em - theory and practice by David Sklansky and Ed Miller. Only the preflop section in that book is out of date. Preflop used to be played the way they describe.

Originally posted by YohanN7

Originally posted by Mozzek
Thanks guys, very helpful. I searched for some articels of FE and I think I understand it a bit now. Just one thing, I play micro stakes. I don´t really think that sizes of bets play a role there, but what sizes would you choose against decent players? 3/4-4/4 of pot?

It depends on very many things. You can write books about it. Books have been written about it. One of the best, and when it comes to bet sizing the best, is No Limit Hold'em - theory and practice by David Sklansky and Ed Miller. Only the preflop section in that book is out of date. Preflop used to be played the way they describe.

Thanks for tip. I´m not gonna read any book about poker now, but I´m sure that in near future I will get to it and I guess will start with what you recommend

Originally posted by Mozzek

Originally posted by YohanN7

Originally posted by Mozzek
Thanks guys, very helpful. I searched for some articels of FE and I think I understand it a bit now. Just one thing, I play micro stakes. I don´t really think that sizes of bets play a role there, but what sizes would you choose against decent players? 3/4-4/4 of pot?

It depends on very many things. You can write books about it. Books have been written about it. One of the best, and when it comes to bet sizing the best, is No Limit Hold'em - theory and practice by David Sklansky and Ed Miller. Only the preflop section in that book is out of date. Preflop used to be played the way they describe.

Thanks for tip. I´m not gonna read any book about poker now, but I´m sure that in near future I will get to it and I guess will start with what you recommend
Yw. It is far from a beginners book. Start with something else, but buy this one too and have it as a reference in the bookshelf. Sooner or later you'll need it.

Nice discussion!

I would call his min-raise OTR. Villain could have a flush, but he could also have Qx, like QJ or KQ OR QT. KQ is more unlikely, QJ or QT are more likely. Since he is giving us a good price, I don't think I could fold that spot in NL2.