KK 3b pot overpair very wet turn

I think foldin OTT is too weak. I would call and OTR definitelly fold.

I would bet turn myself. As played I would fold OTR.

Originally posted by la55i
I would bet turn myself. As played I would fold OTR.

Interesting. But I do not see what could call on turn. Top pairs fold. FD? I think many hands now are better than our which call turn - 2 pair, striagh

Originally posted by SPeedFANat1c

Originally posted by la55i
I would bet turn myself. As played I would fold OTR.

Interesting. But I do not see what could call on turn. Top pairs fold. FD? I think many hands now are better than our which call turn - 2 pair, striagh

I think we should bet the turn becuase there is still not completed flush draw and we need to have some plan for river. So, to make our live easy - I´d bet the turn and then check OTR.

I think AJ might call and villain can sometimes have QQ in his range too? KQ makes OESD and flush draws are possible.
So when weaker hands can call and we have to protect vs draws I think it is fine to bet. Also it might make our river play easier.

I also think we could cbet the turn again and probably check/fold the river. He shouldn't have that many 9x in his range. We block alot of KQ combinations for OESD, but he could have some flushdraws and top pairs which are still calling.

No point in cbetting. Hands that we beat will fold. I like it as played.

Hands that we beat and that will call our turn bet can improve OTR. We have to protect.

This Ahead/Behind situation. We should not make the pot big.

So what about X OTF ?
Villan range smash our range on that board and he can put a lot of presure on us.Also there are a lot of bad cards that cand come OTT.
As played idk what to say about turn CB ? i guess that is a bit to thin.X-c seems pretty fine, he will not have to many comos for value and can have some blufs which make our call +EV.

PS: PRE size is a bit smallish.

No way we are skipping a cbet OTF. That would be just bad. I don't think we are crushed, we probably are ahead most of the times OTF.
There are many bad cards that can come OTT and that is part of the reason why we bet OTF.

What comes to turn cbet, I think there are a lot of draws and since only 9x has hit it I wouldn't call this way ahead / way behind just yet. Considering that villain just flats pre and doesn't raise OTF I think over half of his range should be overcards, top pairs, gutshot, OESD, FD... And if we are going to check call turn anyway why would we let him take the initiative from us and bluff us? If we get raised OTT we can just fold. The fact that we might get raised doesn't mean that we shouldn't bet.

Im not speaking about our hand that is crushed, im speking range vs range wise.

About you 2nd point, go to equilab and see how many draws you can fiind, how many KQ w BDFD, how many FD"s, OESD and you will see that there are not as many as u think

Yeah i agree, the fact that we might get raised doesn't mean that we shouldn't bet, the fact that we dont have that much value and dont need to much protection (can mean that we shouldn"t bet)

Range vs range we are almost flipping:

MP3 46.82% 44.87% 1.94% QQ+, 44-22, AQs+, A5s-A2s, KTs, QTs+, J9s, T8s, 98s, 87s, 76s, AQo+, AhJd, AsJd, AsJh, AsJc, AcJd, AcJh, KhQd, KsQd, KsQh, KcQd, KcQh, KcQs
CO 53.18% 51.24% 1.94% JJ-99, AQs-ATs, KQs, JTs, T9s, AQo-AJo, KQo

But I don't think that matters at all in this case. We should not stop cbetting overpairs because our perceived range has some bluffs in it and villain knows that. Actually after our cbet OTF our range should not have as many bluffs anymore and if we compare villains flatting range vs our value range we are doing better. What matters is our hand vs villains range:

MP2 72.27% 71.92% 0.34% KsKc
CO 27.73% 27.39% 0.34% JJ-99, AQs-ATs, KQs, JTs, T9s, AQo-AJo, KQo

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TT-99, JTs, AsQs, KsQs, AsJs, AsTs, AJo, AdQs, AhQs, AsQd, AsQh, AsQc, AcQs, KdQs, KhQs, KsQd, KsQh, KsQc, KcQs

There you have 44 combos that we beat that has some kind of draw/top pair/overcards that will call on the flop.

JJ and T9s are the only combos (10) that already beat us. That is if villain doesn't flat 3bets with 88 or 77 but if he does his range is still draw heavy. And as I said because villain didn't raise OTF I would take some of his hard hits away from his range.

We have a overpair on a board that offers a lot of draws for villain. Why don't we have that much value and why wouldn't we have to protect?
My line would be bet fold turn and give up OTR. Why xc OTT would be better and what do we do OTR? When we bet OTT we can decide the amount and if we would call anyway it would be the same, but when we bet ourselves we have FE on top of our equity.

We are talking about turn cbet that you proclaim to make!

We were also talking about whether to make a flop cbet or not.
And on my post above I talked about the turn line too. I believe villain has a lot of draws and other hands that will fold, so we have FE too. And if we would call anyway I think it would be better to bet here.

I do not like to invest money when all weaker hands will fold and the pot will get big on such a board.

wow this is sick. Both cbet and x/call make sense from the comments

but actully x/c makes less sense cause he is not that agro postflop.

But I also like the idea to not bet so thin and keep pot smaller. And once I check and he is not so agro, I still am considering fold.

TT, TJ hits, 9x hits.

Maybe its close and we can do everything.

PS: PRE size is a bit smallish.

I think 9bb oop is std.

The idea is that you can 3b a bit bigger when oop. +1bb for example.