888888

What is the purpose of the squeeze?
Just call and see a flop.
Flop hits BU and you will not achieve much with a bet.

whats your bottom PP range on raise preflop?

Originally posted by gandy666
whats your bottom PP range on raise preflop?

My two cents:
It is a min-raise and after that a call if you raise, with 88, which has 24 overcards in the deck you have 86.7% of flopping at least an overcard (9,T,J,Q,K,A) and no 8 (no set):
P=1-(26P3/50P3)=1-0.1326=0,8673%=86.7% ; with nPr permutations of n elements in groups of "r" elements.
But if you call you have 4% of flopping an 8, so "call 20" rule applies as at least BTN is 100BB deep:
2·49P2/50P3=0.04=4%; in fact:, with standard value of OR (3bb+1xlimper), thus you'd have to win a pot at least 24 times the bet you call. But we can do some magic here and add implied odds (add now to the pot the money we'd win in the future).
Therefore, on the long run:
With one raiser you'd need to win 67,5 BB to Break Even.
With one raiser and a caller you'd need to win 63 BB to BE.
And in this case you'd have to win just 18.5 BB to BE though it isn't a standard situation.

Postflop you see villains BTN range is pretty represented there so it's check/fold. 96% of times (of which 87.6% with an overcard that hits villain BTN range) you are going to be in a flop without an 8, so definitely I'd not raise here without knowing that fold equity of one villain is at least 60% so you really need, at least, them both folding 77% of times to gain 0 BB:
EV=5.5·X-8·(1-X)=0 ; X=0.59=59%; X=Y·Y; Y=77%

So just call, it is more profitable.

EDITED: Getting overcards in a flop with 88 is 87.6%.

You cant just assume if I get call and overcard is on the flop I lost. Look on my equity

Originally posted by gandy666
You cant just assume if I get call and overcard is on the flop I lost. Look on my equity

It is my opinion, take it with a grain of salt.
You are OOP you are going to be cbetted frequently. You can't pay for an 8 and you are going to be beaten by most of villain's 3 bet-call range (worse if both call).
You'll bet/call 3 streets flop to river with overcards that hit villains range? I don't see that line very profitable. It's a multiway pot most of the time you can get called by two and most of times with 88 against two after 3 bet you are crushed.
Not only an overcard, 99-JJ has you Beaten.

Originally posted by gandy666
whats your bottom PP range on raise preflop?

QQ+. Or since it is only minraise maybe we can sqz JJ+ as value.
88 is not strong enough and as rvnikauj said you will face overcards very often. Vs 2 villains with their call squeeze ranges on a board that has at least one overcard you are very likely behind.

Originally posted by gandy666
You cant just assume if I get call and overcard is on the flop I lost. Look on my equity

Board: 3cThJd
       Equity   Win Tie
CO     60.49%  60.26%   0.23% { 22+, A6s+, K9s+, Q9s+, J8s+, T9s, 98s, 87s, 76s, ATo+, K9o+, Q9o+, J9o+ }
BU     39.51%  39.27%   0.23% { 88 }

You are behind I think

Originally posted by gandy666
You cant just assume if I get call and overcard is on the flop I lost. Look on my equity

QQ+ for sure. JJ vs certain circumstances.
Villains that will call your squeeze will do it with better pairs than 88.

Originally posted by rvnikauj

Originally posted by gandy666
You cant just assume if I get call and overcard is on the flop I lost. Look on my equity

Board: 3cThJd
       Equity   Win Tie
CO     60.49%  60.26%   0.23% { 22+, A6s+, K9s+, Q9s+, J8s+, T9s, 98s, 87s, 76s, ATo+, K9o+, Q9o+, J9o+ }
BU     39.51%  39.27%   0.23% { 88 }

You are behind I think

did I say anywhere I am ahead?

@rvnikauj

You said earlier that there is 44% chance of at least one overcard coming. Are you sure about that? My chart says it is 86.7% when holding 88.

And of course on this hand we can't look at our raw equity preflop or on 1 random flop. It would be better to use a program like flopzilla to analyze this.
88 is not very high and the final board will have at least one overcard with 96% probability, and it likely has more than just one overcard.
We would be playing OOP and possibly vs 2 villains.

Originally posted by la55i
@rvnikauj
You said earlier that there is 44% chance of at least one overcard coming. Are you sure about that? My chart says it is 86.7% when holding 88.
.

Indeed I tried to figure it out myself and did it and screwed it up because I used a wrong permutation. It is easier this way:
There are 26 cards in the deck higher than 8 so we are going to get the odds of getting 8 or lower:
Using permutations npr as "n" elements "p"ermutated in groups of "r" elements with n>=r.
26p3 are the flops that contains 8's or lower cards like 4h7c8d or 4c2d2d. And 50p3 is all the flops we can get.
26p3/50p3=13.26%; so the opposite events has 100%-13.26%=86.73%
Thanks for pointing me out!

Additionally the chances of getting an overcards are:

This is well known and easy to find in google, but it was fun guessing it out from "scratch".
PS.: Look at pocket jacks. It's annoying we are having overcards that many times at turn.