JJ in 4 bet pot against 2 players at low flop

Shove will never be a mistake ! ahah

1/3p to see if you can induce some shoves would be ok then jam turn . You could jam the flopp although i'm not as a big a fan of that as i think you fold out worse to often.

What is the reason for 4-betting JJ mw?

Originally posted by Hesticus
What is the reason for 4-betting JJ mw?

value ? it is a good reason no ?

The big problem with 1/3 is a lot of turn will be pretty bad for our hand. Then, some hands are Ah or Kh flush draw, they will call a shove flop. (and you will check/call on a 9♥: turn so better shove flop).

And you value also 7x, 88-TT (it's quite a lot)

The preflop 4-bet should be bigger due to position and actual hand. Multiway is not desirable. With a bigger pot, the flop is easier to play. Now you don't like to fold your overpair.

A flop shove ($16 into a $12 pot) will not get called by many worse hands, since there aren't too many draws to begin with (given preflop actions), and the offered pot odds aren't the juciest. I think you get calls from A♥:K♥:/A♥:Q♥: and possibly K♥:Q♥: and :Qx::Qy:; against such a range you lose badly. I'd downgrade the possibility that people setmine with TT-88 here, and are lose enough to call a shove when they miss. A small bet is clearly better. However, a small bet may create problems later in the hand that takes some guts and or hand reading ability to come over. But cross that bridge when you come to it.

Originally posted by Xixi74

Originally posted by Hesticus
What is the reason for 4-betting JJ mw?

value ? it is a good reason no ?

As long as you have a valid reason I think it should be at least fine. You can always refine your game. In my opinion, I think JJ shouldn't be 4-bet for value nor as a bluff so the conclusion would be just calling. I once wrote an article where I also stated that hands such as JJ are mathematically very difficult to decide what to do and we should definitely look to villain's tendencies aside other things (position, stack size, SPR, image, etc.).

it is not an open from UTG with a 3bet from MP.

It is COvBU the range aren't so tight to not 4 bet JJ. Then flat is also an option sure, but I think we should cold4 more than flat in frequencies.

You definitely make a good point. If this works, I would maintain this strategy for sure In any case, as played, I think you should bet flop.

This is so weird with the tight BB cold calling
He can have all QQ+ in his range if he's smart

The problem with betting I have is that we have to either bet 1/3 or be committed and when do bet 1/3 we can induce some raises.

Good luck figuring this one out, wouldn't be surprised if check+folding to a large bet would be the right play
I usually don't spend much time on a spot like this and try to work it out as it should happen super rarely.
EDIT: check fold if BB bets, continue if button starts betting