GII w/ a set on wet board

The turn only makes the call more obvious

Originally posted by Dadramel
The turn only makes the call more obvious

Hmm...I would have thought the opposite. Why is that?

Just raise the flop. You want to build a pot asap, and take into account you are playing the lowest limits where people hate folding. although I would raise the flop at any limit.

Originally posted by DecMate
Just raise the flop. You want to build a pot asap, and take into account you are playing the lowest limits where people hate folding. although I would raise the flop at any limit.

This is what I pretty much wound up deducing from this.

In the end, he had 79o and I bricked riv.

Its better to raise there otf, dont complicate it. Ott we cant really fold, nothing u can do there. But really, dont slowplay, u can start slowplaying when u understand your ramge and especially.your opps range. In other words at nl2 u shouldnt do it &).

Originally posted by Mozzek
Its better to raise there otf, dont complicate it. Ott we cant really fold, nothing u can do there. But really, dont slowplay, u can start slowplaying when u understand your ramge and especially.your opps range. In other words at nl2 u shouldnt do it &).

It's gotten me in trouble on another hand or two. Set over set in the end. It's just so, so difficult to extract value on here sometimes. Either I raise in this situation and blow them off the hand and make 10 bb's, or I keep them in the hand and they always, always get turn or river. I'm constantly caught between the switches. I don't get it. I never go through this anywhere else I play.

Winning Poker Network (Yatahay) - $0.02 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 4 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4: http://www.pokertracker.com

CO: $2.14 (VPIP: 9.62, PFR: 9.62, 3Bet Preflop: 9.09, Hands: 53)
BTN: $1.57 (VPIP: 37.04, PFR: 24.07, 3Bet Preflop: 4.35, Hands: 56)
SB: $1.41 (VPIP: 21.84, PFR: 18.04, 3Bet Preflop: 2.67, Hands: 518)
Hero (BB): $3.30

SB posts SB $0.01, Hero posts BB $0.02

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.03) Hero has 2s 2c
CO raises to $0.06, fold, fold, Hero calls $0.04

Flop : ($0.13, 2 players) Ks 2h 3d
Hero checks, CO bets $0.09, Hero calls $0.09

Turn : ($0.31, 2 players) 6s
Hero checks, CO bets $0.15, Hero calls $0.15

River : ($0.61, 2 players) 8c
Hero bets $0.38, CO raises to $0.80, Hero raises to $3.00 and is all-in, CO calls $1.04 and is all-in

CO shows 6h 6c (Three of a Kind, Sixes)
(Pre 82%, Flop 11%, Turn 98%)

Hero shows 2s 2c (Three of a Kind, Twos)
(Pre 18%, Flop 89%, Turn 2%)

CO wins $4.08
Rake paid $0.15
$0.06 was deducted from the pot for the jackpot.

Sure, I could bet on the flop but you know he's calling that here and then I'm walking right into set over set anyway.

With 22 u need to raise, at latest ott, but u can do it otf already. I would prefer cr ott in this particular case.

It seems ur on a tilt. Cut the volume and watch some theory videos, this should get ur mindset back on the right track.

66 since you are multiway you can start OTF by leading. As played I would raise already OTF.

Originally posted by Mozzek
With 22 u need to raise, at latest ott, but u can do it otf already. I would prefer cr ott in this particular case.

It seems ur on a tilt. Cut the volume and watch some theory videos, this should get ur mindset back on the right track.

See, just like last week when I opted not to take a break and just play on other networks, that's all I need to do here. What good is turning down the volume and watching theory videos when this is only happening to me on one network?

The fact is *anyone* would be tilted when they play there after going through what I have for 3 years there. When I say that the hands posted are the only thing that's happened to me during that time on WPN, I mean it. I have put so much effort into winning on that network it's literally insane and I'm still not even close. If I'm in that position, that means virtually none of the 2NL players are winning and as I look through my database, I can't find one person with a 1k+ sample who's in the green. Not one. How could that be? It's not a game vs the house. How can the house be the only one profiting?

I mean, sure - there's things I could do slightly better or different in these hands but in many cases the end result is the same. Further, it's 2NL. If it requires basically a 4 year degree in poker to beat it, something's seriously wrong on that network.

Hand History driven straight to this forum with DriveHUD Poker HUD & Database

NL Holdem $0.02(BB)
CO ($2.1)
BTN ($5.94)
HERO ($2)
BB ($2.59)
HJ ($2)

Dealt to Hero A♣ A♠

HJ Raises To $0.06 (Rem. Stack: 1.94), CO Raises To $0.1 (Rem. Stack: 2.0), BTN Calls $0.1 (Rem. Stack: 5.84), HERO Raises To $0.35 (Rem. Stack: 1.64), BB Folds, HJ $1.94 (allin) (Rem. Stack: 0.00), CO Folds, BTN Folds, HERO $1.64 (allin) (Rem. Stack: 0.00)

Flop ($4.22) 9♥ T♥ 8♣

Turn ($4.22) 9♥ T♥ 8♣ 6♥

River ($4.22) 9♥ T♥ 8♣ 6♥ 7♥

HJ shows A♦ A♥

HJ wins $3.99

Now, there's a 1.98% chance of this happening. It happened, villain thought it was the greatest thing ever, and the table started grumbling about the site being rigged (they're recs). The fact is that I literally just smiled to myself knowing how much money I make off these guys in the long run and moved onto the next hand. The session wound up being a +3 BI session.

Things go back and forth. You take 3 beats, you get 3 back in the long run. I have NO problem with that and have grown to love the variance in poker. Variance is one thing, but losing to ridiculous coolers and beats for 3 years straight and only on one network - with NO good run in there at all - is just point blank extremely suspicious.

You have site induced tilt, or whatever you want to call it. It's the same /w sports that teams play best on their hometurf.
Most of the hands you post are just played poorly and you're Very result oriented.

The 22 vs 66 for example: You put in 90% of your stack in a spot where he's never valueraising less and you blame it on variance/rigged. no you just played the hand bad.

Originally posted by Varune
You have site induced tilt, or whatever you want to call it. It's the same /w sports that teams play best on their hometurf.
Most of the hands you post are just played poorly and you're Very result oriented.

The 22 vs 66 for example: You put in 90% of your stack in a spot where he's never valueraising less and you blame it on variance/rigged. no you just played the hand bad.

Everybody is result oriented. That's part of being human. Nobody could put in the volume, work, study, and review I have, continue to just get slammed and only in one venue, and not start paying attention to their results. You do realize 99.9% of people would have left the game with my experiences on this site, don't you? Nobody puts up with things like that for years. I mean I have to carefully play sets @ 2NL or else I lose tons of money? That's ridiculous and you know it.

Here's a hand that was against the same guy. Look what he's getting the money in with and look at how the hand plays out. Same session, just a few hands later:

Winning Poker Network (Yatahay) - $0.02 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4: http://www.pokertracker.com

MP: $2.41 (VPIP: 31.25, PFR: 12.50, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 32)
CO: $2.97 (VPIP: 15.73, PFR: 14.61, 3Bet Preflop: 13.51, Hands: 90)
BTN: $2.42 (VPIP: 35.56, PFR: 24.44, 3Bet Preflop: 2.94, Hands: 93)
SB: $1.61 (VPIP: 21.72, PFR: 18.16, 3Bet Preflop: 3.43, Hands: 555)
Hero (BB): $1.70
UTG: $2.00 (VPIP: 15.88, PFR: 11.42, 3Bet Preflop: 5.44, Hands: 366)

SB posts SB $0.01, Hero posts BB $0.02

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.03) Hero has Kd Ks
UTG raises to $0.06, fold, CO calls $0.06, fold, fold, Hero raises to $0.24, fold, CO calls $0.18

Flop : ($0.55, 2 players) Jd 7h 9s
Hero bets $0.34, CO calls $0.34

Turn : ($1.23, 2 players) Kc
Hero bets $1.12 and is all-in, CO calls $1.12

River : ($3.47, 2 players) Qd

CO shows Jc Tc (Straight, King High)
(Pre 20%, Flop 33%, Turn 18%)

Hero shows Kd Ks (Three of a Kind, Kings)
(Pre 80%, Flop 67%, Turn 82%)

CO wins $3.30
Rake paid $0.13
$0.04 was deducted from the pot for the jackpot.

You really know someone who can sit through that for 3 years and not get even the slightest bit result oriented? I've certainly never met one lol. I swear to you, I can't get through a 1k+ hand session without 4 of these. Never. Switch networks and play somewhere else: I just never see this but once in a blue moon.

Originally posted by Varune
The 22 vs 66 for example: You put in 90% of your stack in a spot where he's never valueraising less and you blame it on variance/rigged. no you just played the hand bad.

Again, man: It's 2NL. You know most of these guys aren't even thinking. Look at the hand I just posted above. He's not value raising with less? Of course he is. He's basically just pushing buttons.

Guy went on to win 3 more stacks in about 15 minutes all by getting it in with less than 25% equity. /shrug.

Here's a graph of Brokesobroke, Pokercoach and succesfull midstakes grinder. This is all on NL200 zoom stars a few years back. Take a look at it and stop whining about your shortterm results on 1 random site.

I'd cheer if i see people stacking off that TJ, you're printing money in the long term.

The 22 hand vs 66: Tell me a hand he's value raising ON THE RIVER that's worse than yours that fits in a 9% (!) PFR.
If you give it a second thought you'll notice you're also 'one of those guys that's not thinking' and that's exactly why you're still on nl2.

Originally posted by Varune
Here's a graph of Brokesobroke, Pokercoach and succesfull midstakes grinder. This is all on NL200 zoom stars a few years back. Take a look at it and stop whining about your shortterm results on 1 random site.

I'd cheer if i see people stacking off that TJ, you're printing money in the long term.

The 22 hand vs 66: Tell me a hand he's value raising ON THE RIVER that's worse than yours that fits in a 9% (!) PFR.
If you give it a second thought you'll notice you're also 'one of those guys that's not thinking' and that's exactly why you're still on nl2.

Look, I see the variance and I see how crazy it can be. It's good to put things in proper perspective and I know it. The thing is that, to answer your question about the pocket 22's: On that board? Is it really inconceivable to believe the guy has two pair or top pair and top kicker? It has to be set over set?

I'm not @ 2nl anywhere but here anymore. That's the point. You're posting graphs from a pro playing 200NL zoom. We're talking 2NL on WPN. I know, it's small money and a short sample but it's still the world I'm living in on that network right now and it's extremely frustrating at times.

I am thinking and that's what's so frustrating. Outside of the world of poker I've had many vast and diverse experiences. I know people. There's just absolutely no way that the average 2NL player - anywhere - is thinking on a high level. The average IQ, globally, is around ~98. Think about that. I'm not going to get into the "my IQ is this rawr" ridiculousness but I will say that I'm of a high IQ and leave it at that. If I'm having to go through mindbending strategy over every single pot I get into on 2NL, can you imagine what the average person is going through? It's tough to fold sets to these guys after you WATCH THEM stack off drawing to a straight with 32% equity and one card to come.

i'm alway xr when i has a set vs BTN because he open really wide

Originally posted by nguyenhieudl
i'm alway xr when i has a set vs BTN because he open really wide

What if he checks back - What do you do OTT, if OOP?

BTN: $1.57 (VPIP: 37.04, PFR: 24.07, 3Bet Preflop: 4.35, Hands: 56)
FLop Ks 2h 3d : he Cbet vs backdoor flush , CB vs block like Q J T , and mid pair , flop dry board he always bet , if he check he has nothing