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Implied Odds + Middle Pair & 3-barrel Bluff

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HinduReal
Joined: 06.01.2007

I'd be really interested in some feedback on these two hands.

Hand 1:

UTG: $5.80 (116 bb)
MP: $6.17 (123.4 bb)
CO: $6.35 (127 bb) - VPIP: 24, PFR: 22, 3B: 11, AF: 10.0, Hands: 105
Hero (BTN): $5 (100 bb)
SB: $5 (100 bb)
BB: $6.76 (135.2 bb) - VPIP: 38, PFR: 10, 3B: 7, AF: 2.4, Hands: 77

Preflop: Hero is BTN with T♦ 9♦
2 folds, CO raises to $0.15, Hero calls $0.15, 2 folds

I flat called with that hand in this spot because a) open raiser looks like a fairly solid reg that opens a rather wide range from CO and b) BB is the table's fish who calls a lot preflop. Thus, I liked playing a hand with decent implied odds in position, assuming he'd join our party at a decent rate.

Flop: ($0.37) 8♥ T♥ A♠ (2 players)
CO bets $0.19, Hero calls $0.19

I hit middle pair; villain c-bets the flop 57% of the time and given his wide opening range, a fair amount of bets here are supposedly with air. Is calling with the intention to reevaluate on the turn the best line here?

Turn: ($0.75) A♦ (2 players)
CO bets $0.54, Hero calls $0.54

The Ace is a great card for me as it eliminates several Ax combinations from villain's range. Vice versa, it does the same to my range. My thought process in-game here was that it's a good card for him to second-barrel the turn, given I might very well have called on the flop with several draws. Also, JJ, QQ, or KK as well as any Ace, would certainly bet here.

I'm not sure if I like the call though... Do you think it's +EV against villain's range here? What would be the preferred line in your opinion?

River: ($1.83) 8♠ (2 players)
CO checks, Hero checks

Once the eight shows up and CO checks, I checked behind because I thought I had a fair amount of showdown value.

After thinking about it, though, how often does villain check with a worse hand here? Wouldn't the 8♠ be a perfect card to fire a third barrel with the air part of his range?

Do you like checking behind or do you think I should have turned my hand into a bluff here? (And if so: what bet size?)

Spoiler

Results: $1.83 pot ($0.08 rake)
Final Board: 8♥ T♥ A♠ A♦ 8♠
CO showed Q♦ Q♥ and won $1.75 ($0.87 net)
Hero mucked T♦ 9♦ and lost (-$0.88 net)

---

Hand 2:

MP: $8.23 (164.6 bb) - VPIP: 30, PFR: 23, 3B: 7, AF: 1.2, Hands: 93
CO: $3.59 (71.8 bb)
BTN: $7.15 (143 bb)
Hero (SB): $5.02 (100.4 bb)
BB: $5 (100 bb)
UTG: $6.69 (133.8 bb)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J♠ A♣
UTG calls $0.05, MP calls $0.05, CO calls $0.05, BTN folds, Hero raises to $0.35, 2 folds, MP calls $0.30, CO folds

Pretty standard here I guess.

Flop: ($0.85) 6♥ 2♠ T♣ (2 players)
Hero bets $0.41, MP calls $0.41

The flop doesn't hit a lot of my range. Since I really don't know what villain's limp/call range is PF, I'm somewhat lost here. The board, presumably, is worse for my range than for his. I considered checking but I would have been lost whether to call or fold after a bet from villain. So I went with a c-bet.

Even after villain calls here, I'm still very insecure regarding his range. Certainly some medium pocket pairs and a bunch of overcards

Turn: ($1.67) 3♥ (2 players)
Hero bets $0.85, MP calls $0.85

When the 3 hits, it doesn't really change the board texture a lot. It likely didn't improve either of us. So, I bet again, at this point pretty much repping AT or an overpair. What's your preferred line in this spot?

River: ($3.37) 2♦ (2 players)
Hero bets $3.41 and is all-in, MP folds

After villain calls again on the turn, I think his range will have many 77-99 and maybe some KJs/QJs. That is, several combinations that got me beat but can't call a shove. So I shove.

What do you think?

Spoiler

Results: $3.37 pot ($0.14 rake)
Final Board: 6♥ 2♠ T♣ 3♥ 2♦
MP mucked and lost (-$1.61 net)
Hero mucked J♠ A♣ and won $3.23 ($1.62 net)


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5 replies
MyFloXyBabY
Joined: 15.02.2010

First hand standard.

Second hand isoraise bigger pre and maybe cbet smaller.
Turn you can check and calm down dude, no need to transform your hand into an helpless bluff.


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Fanko
Joined: 24.08.2010

Hand 1

I would fold to the big bet on the turn, it is very often a strong Ax holding and even when he bets his flush draws and second pairs we still have a hand that doesn't do particularly well vs this range. In addition to that, we would need to plan a bet on the river to make him fold his KK/QQ/JJ/KTs-JTs. It can work but this is 5NL and it is not particularly necessary to make such moves. On the river you should bet the same way as you would with strong made hands, something like 0.85-0.95$, as his range is pretty much air, second pairs and 8x after he checks the river.

Hand 2

He is not limp/calling preflop, he is calling open raise from UTG and then calling your squeeze. I guess you can either bet the flop yourself with the intention to second and triple barrel on good rundowns or check/raise it. The turn and river cards aren't exactly what you are looking for when you bluff but people do tend to overfold in such situations and he mostly has something like 77-99 and occasionally you might even make QQ/JJ fold (even though they should not).


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HinduReal
Joined: 06.01.2007

Thank you, Fanko!

I agree with your evaluation of Hand 1.

In Hand 2, villain isn't calling an open raise but actually overlimping a UTG limp and calling my raise:

UTG calls $0.05, MP calls $0.05, CO calls $0.05, BTN folds, Hero raises to $0.35, 2 folds, MP calls $0.30, CO folds

Therefore, in combination with his stats, I assume that his range is much more skewed towards small/medium PPs or - maybe - some implied odds SCs like QJ/JT.
Do you agree? What do you think his range is preflop (without considering what we learn on later streets)?

Based on what I think villain's range is, I regard a c/r on the flop as overly aggressive. By choosing that line, I basically turn my hand into a bluff and I'm not sure how much fold equity I have here vs. medium PPs and, of course, the odd T in his range. Thus, I think I prefer donking since I do have decent equity (though likely little FE) and I sized the bet small as kind of a block-bet.

(There might be an argument to be made for c/r with the purpose of balancing your c/r range on the flop (speculating here), but I would mostly dismiss such considerations on 5NL. Shouldn't I?)


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Fanko
Joined: 24.08.2010

My bad, somehow i thought UTG raised. In regard of that new information i guess MP's range on the flop consists mostly of small pocket pairs, possibly some Axs, suited connectors and suited onegappers. Betting small on the flop makes sense but then if you want him to fold 6x, 44-55, A2s-A5s you should split your range into bluffs and value hands on the turn and bet big with both as your bet sizing of 1/2ps is kinda weak and will often get called and raised. Something like 1.15$ will almost certainly make him fold all his Ax, 6x and 44-55, possibly 77-99 (if he has them, probably not but stranger things have happened). Most people would even strongly consider folding their weak TP (QTs, JTs, T9s) as well. However, i would refrain from bluffing on that blank river if i get called on the turn as it changes nothing and hands that call the turn should extremely often call the river as well.


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YohanN7
Joined: 15.06.2009

Hand 2: This is the "dark tunnel bluff". If you like senseless barreling away preflop, flop, turn and river (this is senseless barreling, no matter how you try to "analyze"), or think your opponents can be routinely barreled off, then by all means do it. Normal play requires some backup when bluffing, like outs and very little SD value so that a successful bluff really pays dividends. Say you held 9♥:7♥:. Then the play is defensible (except for sizing that could be better).

It is precisely HH like this one that makes me believe that most people lose money when squeezing OOP. Any "autoprofit" (and more) is lost when called.


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