87s, flop, turn, river? mistake or good play?

Fold to the 3bet preflop
Check call flop, check call turn

This is exactly a hand where if you just stopped trying to be fancy and followed the beginner strategy to the letter you'd do much better without wasting brain space

Just believe me, you will have loads of space to pick your spots and outplay opponents later
You have to learn the basics first though, have a simple straightforward gameplan, you've been running below EV but also leaking a ton of money where you didn't have to

You can look at my series
https://www.pokerstrategy.com/video/44566/
Where I played my solver, Snowie, best player in the world emulating, thousands of hours of study and play honed approach
Against the strict first 2 lessons of beginner strat you can learn in 15 minutes

And it was not very clear which one does better at NL2, I barely pulled ahead across the span of the 3 episodes

Originally posted by LemOn36
Fold to the 3bet preflop
Check call flop, check call turn

This is exactly a hand where if you just stopped trying to be fancy and followed the beginner strategy to the letter you'd do much better without wasting brain space

My thoughts exactly.

1. Villain's 3 b is a bit large.
2. Our hand is not a call even vs normal 3b size.
3. Hand sample is too small to base decisions on stats.

To sum up - just fold preflop.

Well, at least you won versus A♥:8♥: right?

Do you mind sharing what is your reasoning for betting so big on the turn? Like I said in your blog - EVERY bet should have some strong reason behind it. So if you share your thoughts throughout the hand maybe we will be able to correct the leaks in your logic and help you think correctly, instead of giving you dry "good" lines

Hey guys,

Thanks for the responses!

my logic was this...

Villian's stats were showing he was playing like a maniac and i wanted to " catch him and put him in jail! ". I figured, it would cost me 14c (7bb) to see if I get a good flop... I also value suited connectors too much, thinking about how strong flushes and straights are... What i need to think about is the statistical odds of hitting those flushes and straights, which is very low... meaning I'll most likely be folding post-flop to these players... (is that the correct way to look at it?)

After flop i did get top pair but was not happy with how low the top pair was... but I felt he had worse(due to his maniac nature)... It was hard for me to play post-flop because I did call the 3bet and put myself in a tough position... i see that now. I should wait for more positions to get into flops easily rather than trying to "catch people"..

@lemon36,

I've been seeing a lot of success with the strategy you linked me too, I do follow it fairly close (90% of the time)... I try to do "cute" moves like this sometimes when villian gives me tells through the HUD... Perhaps at this limit that's the wrong mentality but I've been having success reading into my opponents hands and altering my play... although I do agree in hindsight this was a clear fold to 3bet.

your thoughts.... ?

P.S: i'm on lesson 4 right now of the guide... it's working out well for me, thanks Lemon. it was a huge eye opener.

Originally posted by sc2zerker
Villian's stats were showing

nothing.

With 76 hands, you have a certain hint what magnitude his VPIP and PFR PERHAPS might be. He raised 24 hands and called 22 other, so he will certainly not be a station or a rock. But he MIGHT be a serious player with a bit of luck. Or a very serious player on a very shorthanded table who adapted perfectly at his opponents. And of that 24 hands, there were some where he 3betted. 12% of an unknown number of opportunities for a 3bet. How many hands might that be? 2? 3? Do you have to be a maniac to have QQ+, AK 2 or 3 times in 76 hands? You cannot rely on stats from such a small sample. Really.

What i miss in all videos about statistics and HUDs: It is mentioned that there is need for a sample size for each value, but the „min sample“ value that HM2 (and PT4 afaik) is never used. I use it in my HUD. I will not get shown a VPIP or PFR from less than 30 hands, and no 3bet from less than 20 opportunities (which results in more than 100 hands and still is much uncertain). I highly recommend to use that „min sample“ for each value. First, you have to consider when the value is valid. Second, you will not get shown an invalid value which will influence your play even if you know it’s rubbish.

missing tons of information if you dont show vpip pfr before 30 hands tbh

Originally posted by Tomaloc
missing tons of information if you dont show vpip pfr before 30 hands tbh

Now this is getting a bit off-topic but I wouldn't say tons. Sure it is nice to know if villain plays 80/0 over 30 hands or something more normal. That already might let us make some conclusions. But then we of course have to remember that even after 30 hands VPIP and PRF might be for example 20% off.

But yea you are right. There is some information missing. Even small amount of information counts. But then we have to be very careful, be able to asses the reliability of the information and use it well.

Here is the place to advise all players to make a habit of taking notes. One note can give you the missing info we need...