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JJ in a tough spot

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pieronimad94
Joined: 09.11.2018

Hi everyone! Here is the hand: https://www.boomplayer.com/29458890_B0300BFB31

I had really bad doubts playing preflop. I thought it was just too weak to 4bet in this situation and too strong to fold, so I just called.

That donk in flop made me believe he had a medium hand he wanted to protect like AT or maybe a flush draw, he even could have QQ+ that he decided to flat call to play it tricky, I didn't think he would be playing sets like this, and he was very rarely having 2 pairs in this flop after a 3bet. So I decided to call flop and re-evaluate in turn.

I would have folded to a shove in the river but since he checked I thought it was a good enought hand to value bet?? Or it was just too thin? because I thought that any hand stronger than mine would have definetly shoved in that river and a middle pair would have been a good bluff catcher for a missed draw for him to call.

It was a really difficult spot for me so.. let me hear your opinions!! Thanks!!


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9 replies
MyFloXyBabY
Joined: 15.02.2010

Open at least 3x pre at micros.
Preflop calling the 3bet is totally standard, 4betting would be way overplayed. (I wouldn't even 4bet QQ UTG vs MP most of the times at NL5.)
Flop is rather bad news, villain can donk sets, villain behind can raise with all the OP... you have to call though and when MP folds it's already a good news.
Turn nothing else to do than calling and hoping to be against Tx.
River I'd think it's way too thin but given the showdown, well, maybe not xD
That guy'd probably have 3 barrel anything better than JJ indeed.


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Moderator
SDK1987
Joined: 12.11.2008

I think you played it fine, but the river shove seems optimistic or you deal with a big fish that can call with a random top pair hand.

Cheers,
SDK1987


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NatRPheM
Joined: 05.10.2008

I like the river shove, I don't think he is gonna have 2 pairs here much, if ever (56 hitting on the turn being the only possibility, specifically 56 of diamonds), sets are unlikely with the bet sizing, he would either bet super small to induce a raise looking like he is really weak and just wanna see a turn or he would donk out a lot bigger with a set, turn again he would bet bigger if he had a set, that's not a turn you try to milk on, he is betting like he has a hand, but that he isn't ready to commit with it himself. I would shove the turn here as the hand has played out given his sizing. He could be on a draw himself which you would want to protect against and it can also look like you're on the draw by shoving, I just can't see how I am beat on the turn as the hand played out.

I see T9s, JTs, QTs, KTs, ATs, possibly any Ax FD, maybe some K high FD or even Q high seeing as there are no A or K on the flop. The only had that beats us is a weirdly played set and I don't think that will happen too much at all, MAYBE 34 of Diamonds to see a cheapish turn is possible, but again the combo's are so few. Also if he was slow playing QQ+ here he would for sure bet bigger on the flop if he is gonna donk out. To me his bets simply look like a TP that wants a cheap showdown in case he is up against overpairs or have a draw drying to get there as cheap as possible and then bomb it if he hits.

What does he check/trap river with OOP that has JJ beat with less than potsize? Wouldn't you rather shove for value against a stubborn TPTK type hand than give it a chance to check back? The river shouldn't change anything from the turn as hero never has a 4 in this spot? He is checking to catch a bluff or give up on his draw as he has no room to do anything else with less than potsize bet left, I can't see how it's ever a check back with JJ here as with stack sizes being what they are you can't afford to check a really good hand here and have a TPTK type hand check back cause of a 4 card straight that neither player is ever likely to have


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zetozinho
Joined: 18.06.2017

I know he checked OTR after two donks. TT would probably play this way to induce you to bet your QQ+.
I'd say that there's not much value OTR. What worse hands than JJ do you expect a somewhat decent player to call your UTG raise, two calls and shove line?
I wouldn't shove here in almost any situation, unless I know villain is a monster fish. You have some showdown value is he has a T in his hand, which is likely.
I'm not sure if you intended to represent a 4 but you can't really do it in this spot if that was the case.


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GridironAssassin
Joined: 19.12.2014

This is close. I think I start jamming like KK+, maybe QQ sometimes. I want him to have more value in his calling range that we dominate. The weakest Tx he should be calling river with is AT, and that likely should really be a fold. That leaves you in a situation where you only get called by better and always fold out worse. With 2 more overpairs in his range, there is much more value to be had. QQ and JJ are going to snap call this river vs. shove when he has them in his range.


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MLima1984
Joined: 19.05.2015

Hmm for me to be calling facing such agression would deppend on my state of mind or having a read on the villain.

Maybe OTR a check would be better, since some villains like to check to induce bluff.


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bigdog63
Joined: 24.10.2011

Well played. Except river. Not many hands you beat will call here. Unless you have a read on the villain, of course


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pokerboy198229
Joined: 20.08.2011

he is never checking if he has better hands than JJ, so we can shove river


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