I've got a crush on you (NL10 ZOOM 6MAX AND ABOVE)

Good luck i look forward to following the challenge.

Originally posted by DecMate

Current bankroll: 450$ ish

Will post a more complete version of this but just wanted to put it out there., Will post silly hands and moments in here! Cheers & GL
The sillier the better!

Best of luck :gl:,
VS

So my graph is looking extra ugly right now. I'm down roughly 9 BI and it's probably from bad play.
I'm very rusty it's been around 5 years! Will be posting a graph after today's session.

I am live on twitch right now, feel free to join.

EDIT:

Some hands i'd like to discuss...

Strange one.
I'm not sure what villain is trying to rep on the river here. His line doesn't really include Q's, 10's may 3bet pre but you'd think on that flop 4's and 10's would bet.
I'm not sure on my call or his play.

I wasn't sure on this hand if i should be going for value on a spade river. Although looking now we do block the ace high flush.
May post this one in the hand review section.

AND i'm up.....

That hand is probably the biggest pot i've won at this limit so far.
More of them plz stars thanks.

Will be streaming tomorrow from 2pm for anyone interested. GL!

PokerStars - $0.10 Ante $0.01 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 48.5 BB
SB: 100 BB
BB: 108 BB
UTG: 114.6 BB
Hero (MP): 100 BB
CO: 89.1 BB

6 players post ante of 0.1 BB, SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 2.1 BB) Hero has Q♥ Q♠

fold, Hero raises to 3 BB, fold, BTN calls 3 BB, fold, BB calls 2 BB

Flop: (10.1 BB, 3 players) Q♦ 6♥ 8♦
BB checks, Hero bets 7 BB, BTN raises to 16 BB, fold, Hero raises to 96.9 BB and is all-in, BTN calls 29.4 BB and is all-in

Turn: (100.9 BB, 2 players) 9♠

River: (100.9 BB, 2 players) T♠

Hero cashed out 90.6 BB for a fee of 0.9 BB

Hero shows Q♥ Q♠ (Three of a Kind, Queens)
(Pre 89%, Flop 95%, Turn 91%)
BTN shows Q♣ J♦ (Straight, Queen High)
(Pre 11%, Flop 5%, Turn 9%)
BTN wins 96.4 BB

What are your thoughts on the current "cash out" feature?

Despite posting the good hands, the grind so far i am down 14 BI. I've reviewed some hands, made some poor decisions. But i am not deterred! Here is my graph:

Looking to hit gold member as soon as possible and brush up on my strategy. Currently getting all my ranges tweaked to perfection and will continue on.

Current BR: 448$

Ok soo the hu-mongo downswing continues..

PokerStars - $0.10 Ante $0.01 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 89.1 BB
SB: 114.2 BB
BB: 553.8 BB
Hero (UTG): 118.3 BB
MP: 65.4 BB
CO: 290.1 BB

6 players post ante of 0.1 BB, SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 2.1 BB) Hero has A♠ A♣

Hero raises to 3 BB, fold, CO raises to 11.1 BB, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to 28 BB, CO raises to 290 BB and is all-in, Hero calls 90.2 BB and is all-in

Flop: (238.5 BB, 2 players) 5♠ 5♥ K♠

Turn: (238.5 BB, 2 players) Q♠

River: (238.5 BB, 2 players) T♣
Players agreed to run it twice.

Flop #2: (238.5 BB, 2 players) 2♦ J♥ K♦

Turn #2: (238.5 BB, 2 players) 8♦

River #2: (238.5 BB, 2 players) J♦

Hero shows A♠ A♣ (Two Pair, Aces and Fives)
Board #1 (Pre 93%, Flop 91%, Turn 95%)
(Two Pair, Aces and Jacks)
Board #2 (Pre 95%, Flop 89%, Turn 74%)

CO shows A♦ K♣ (Two Pair, Kings and Fives)
Board #1 (Pre 7%, Flop 9%, Turn 5%)
(Flush, Ace High)
Board #2 (Pre 5%, Flop 11%, Turn 26%)

Hero wins 113.9 BB
CO wins 113.9 BB

this hand actually killed me abit inside for FUCK SAKE /rant

PokerStars - $0.10 Ante $0.01 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 295.2 BB
Hero (SB): 101.9 BB
BB: 100 BB
UTG: 45.3 BB
MP: 141.7 BB
CO: 128.7 BB

6 players post ante of 0.1 BB, Hero posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 2.1 BB) Hero has 4♦ 4♠

fold, MP raises to 2.5 BB, fold, fold, Hero calls 2 BB, fold

Flop: (6.6 BB, 2 players) 8♥ T♣ 4♣
Hero checks, MP bets 4.2 BB, Hero raises to 16 BB, MP calls 11.8 BB

Turn: (38.6 BB, 2 players) T♥
Hero bets 24.6 BB, MP calls 24.6 BB

River: (87.8 BB, 2 players) 3♥
Hero bets 58.7 BB and is all-in, MP calls 58.7 BB

Hero shows 4♦ 4♠ (Full House, Fours full of Tens)
(Pre 18%, Flop 4%, Turn 0%)
MP shows T♦ T♠ (Four of a Kind, Tens)
(Pre 82%, Flop 96%, Turn 100%)
MP wins 196 BB

Bankroll: 390$

Not going too well, but i'm still going. Will post a graph soon.

Originally posted by DecMate
What are your thoughts on the current "cash out" feature?

Well it's horrible, it's just good for Stars, it reduces the winrate of the regs (and everyone) on average, losing players lose their money faster. I hate it but can't blame them for doing this

Originally posted by DecMate
What are your thoughts on the current "cash out" feature?

i don't use it, but the cost isn't that high, so who cares.
i have to admit that i have a little less respect for regs that use it... money scared, poor mental game, or what?

if we assume a fair environment, as far as the cold hard numbers are concerned, of course you're just losing 1% of all-in pots in the long run.
however, it might still help you because the potential loss from the potential tilt would be even higher... and similar psychological considerations.

we must remind people that when one player cashes out and the other doesn't, the remaining player is effectively playing against the house (pokerstars has a direct interest in the outcome of the pot, since if the cashout player wins they've just made some money out of thin air. however, they lose some money to the void if the cashout player loses).
i don't actually believe that there's any rigging going on, but it's something to keep in mind... on principle, it doesn't feel right to let them run things like this.

Originally posted by Tomaloc
i don't use it, but the cost isn't that high, so who cares.

I thought that 1% uncapped was pretty high, isn't it?

Originally posted by Tomaloc
we must remind people that when one player cashes out and the other doesn't, the remaining player is effectively playing against the house (pokerstars has a direct interest in the outcome of the pot, since if the cashout player wins they've just made some money out of thin air. however, they lose some money to the void if the cashout player loses).

I totally agree with this, I don't like it but I don't want to be a wussy that whines that poker is rigged ♦ but in reality (esp. with all the anti-regs policies they've been applying recently etc.) like you said, it does not feel right.

Originally posted by Tomaloc

Originally posted by DecMate
What are your thoughts on the current "cash out" feature?

i have to admit that i have a little less respect for regs that use it... money scared, poor mental game, or what?

Guess it's just nice to hit the "long run" instantly. That's how i viewed it.

we must remind people that when one player cashes out and the other doesn't, the remaining player is effectively playing against the house (pokerstars has a direct interest in the outcome of the pot, since if the cashout player wins they've just made some money out of thin air. however, they lose some money to the void if the cashout player loses).
i don't actually believe that there's any rigging going on, but it's something to keep in mind... on principle, it doesn't feel right to let them run things like this.

I cottoned' onto this too, it doesn't feel right. However pokerstars are a reputable company and with the amount of grinders i think it'd be blaringly obvious if things were to be rigged,. . definitely a thinker though.

Originally posted by Tomaloc
i don't use it, but the cost isn't that high, so who cares.
i have to admit that i have a little less respect for regs that use it... money scared, poor mental game, or what?

I think that the answer here is "what?" -- when you are well ahead in equity, you can get your equity out of the pot, and at a small cost. For the same reason, cashout should never be used when your equity is well behind, since you deny yourself the opportunity to suck out.

Originally posted by Tomaloc
we must remind people that when one player cashes out and the other doesn't, the remaining player is effectively playing against the house (pokerstars has a direct interest in the outcome of the pot, since if the cashout player wins they've just made some money out of thin air. however, they lose some money to the void if the cashout player loses).
i don't actually believe that there's any rigging going on, but it's something to keep in mind... on principle, it doesn't feel right to let them run things like this.

I hear this a lot.
When Player A cashes out, PokerStars pays out the equity -- let's say this is 90%.
If Player B loses, PokerStars retains the fee plus the 10% left in the pot, and the rake.
If Player B sucks out, PokerStars must pay out the entire pot, minus the rake to Player B. This money comes from the pool of money collected from those times when the cashout player would have won anyway. [1]

In the long run PokerStars will presumably break even on the win/loss side. They will always have the rake. Every time a player cashes out, the fee goes to their bottom line.

I am quite certain that enough statisticians had a look at this before PokerStars decided to do it, and would never do this without being certain that it was +EV on their end, but regardless of how the win/loss works out, they keep the fee.

I should buy shares...
VS

[1] The house always wins -- but I would love to see the long-term graph of all hands where one player cashed out.

the math is pretty easy, they gain 1% of cashouts in the long run.
it doesn't matter if you cash out while ahead or behind... if you cash out while far behind you indeed deny yourself the opportunity to suck out, but you're also going to lose almost all the time, so it evens out. it's all a matter of perception.

Originally posted by Tomaloc
the math is pretty easy, they gain 1% of cashouts in the long run.
it doesn't matter if you cash out while ahead or behind... if you cash out while far behind you indeed deny yourself the opportunity to suck out, but you're also going to lose almost all the time, so it evens out. it's all a matter of perception.

They do gain exactly that in fees -- however I was wondering if there would be a way to determine, or simulate if over time, any way that they might gain more than that.

Cheers,
VS

Originally posted by VorpalF2F

Originally posted by Tomaloc
the math is pretty easy, they gain 1% of cashouts in the long run.
it doesn't matter if you cash out while ahead or behind... if you cash out while far behind you indeed deny yourself the opportunity to suck out, but you're also going to lose almost all the time, so it evens out. it's all a matter of perception.

They do gain exactly that in fees -- however I was wondering if there would be a way to determine, or simulate if over time, any way that they might gain more than that.

ah, i see what you mean. that's certainly a fair question.

PokerStars - $0.10 Ante $0.01 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 100.3 BB
Hero (SB): 125 BB
BB: 112 BB
UTG: 125.9 BB
MP: 91.9 BB
CO: 125.5 BB

6 players post ante of 0.1 BB, Hero posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 2.1 BB) Hero has A♣ J♠

fold, fold, CO raises to 2.6 BB, fold, Hero raises to 9 BB, fold, CO calls 6.4 BB

Flop: (19.6 BB, 2 players) T♠ 3♦ K♠
Hero bets 6.2 BB, CO calls 6.2 BB

Turn: (32 BB, 2 players) A♦
Hero checks, CO bets 15.5 BB, Hero calls 15.5 BB

River: (63 BB, 2 players) 8♦
Hero checks, CO checks

Okay!
So i've gone back to the drawing board. I'm starting to realize how little i know about everything in the world of poker and i'm putting the brakes on.
I've been watching some videos, learning about range interactions and i've cut my tables down to 2, for the time being.
I'm currently down, BR is around 350$. But i'm learning. And that's something you can't put a price on (well actually...).

Played a session yesterday, i was up almost all session and then i had a couple Eeeeek moments and didn't know what to do. I've posted some stuff in the hand forum section.

So my graph is extremely sad rn, but i'm actually enjoying playing and learning again!
Current mood:

(ALSO i'm restarting my graph from when i got this learning vibe,..... 07/09
:f_love:)
GL!

Hey DecMate,
Don't knock yourself on the head -- at least not so hard.
NL 10 is a tough place to start, especially at zoom.
How did you do at NL 2 and NL 5?

At zoom it is hard to get to know players.

I like the idea of dropping the number of tables, and studying more.

Best of luck :gl:,
VS

Sooooooooo lets start this off

PokerStars - $0.10 Ante $0.01 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 308.8 BB
SB: 101 BB
Hero (BB): 108.3 BB
UTG: 113 BB
MP: 100 BB
CO: 105.4 BB

6 players post ante of 0.1 BB, SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 2.1 BB) Hero has K♦ K♠

fold, MP raises to 2.5 BB, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to 10 BB, MP raises to 40 BB, Hero raises to 108.2 BB and is all-in, MP calls 59.9 BB and is all-in

Flop: (200.9 BB, 2 players) 6♠ Q♦ 3♣

Turn: (200.9 BB, 2 players) 5♠

River: (200.9 BB, 2 players) 3♦
Players agreed to run it twice.

Flop #2: (200.9 BB, 2 players) 3♠ 3♥ 7♣

Turn #2: (200.9 BB, 2 players) 6♦

River #2: (200.9 BB, 2 players) Q♥

Hero shows K♦ K♠ (Two Pair, Kings and Threes)
Board #1 (Pre 82%, Flop 9%, Turn 5%)
(Two Pair, Kings and Threes)
Board #2 (Pre 88%, Flop 95%, Turn 97%)

MP shows Q♣ Q♠ (Full House, Queens full of Threes)
Board #1 (Pre 18%, Flop 91%, Turn 95%)
(Full House, Queens full of Threes)
Board #2 (Pre 12%, Flop 5%, Turn 3%)

MP wins 96 BB
MP wins 95.9 BB

Put in a big grind.
Yesterday was definitely a weird session. I went on a heater, but then i feel that i spewed in certain spots.

PokerStars - $0.10 Ante $0.01 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 216.6 BB
SB: 100 BB
BB: 122.1 BB
UTG: 132.7 BB
MP: 208.2 BB
Hero (CO): 296.5 BB

6 players post ante of 0.1 BB, SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 2.1 BB) Hero has 6♠ 5♠

UTG raises to 3 BB, MP calls 3 BB, Hero calls 3 BB, fold, fold, BB calls 2 BB

Flop: (13.1 BB, 4 players) 5♣ A♠ 4♣
BB checks, UTG bets 6.3 BB, fold, Hero calls 6.3 BB, fold

Turn: (25.7 BB, 2 players) 3♠
UTG checks, Hero bets 18 BB, UTG calls 18 BB

River: (61.7 BB, 2 players) 7♠
UTG checks, Hero bets 55 BB, UTG raises to 105.3 BB and is all-in, Hero calls 50.3 BB

So this hand confused the hell out of me. He leads the flop, x/c the turn then x/r the river.
It made no sense, i couldn't think what flush gets there on this river.... 78 spades is the only viable hand i can think of.
He leads the flop so no way KsQs leads this multiway right??
Even though it made no sense, i kicked myself for not folding here.

I got tilted at one hand i played:
PokerStars - $0.10 Ante $0.01 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 100 BB
SB: 56.7 BB
BB: 100.4 BB
UTG: 153.2 BB
MP: 114.5 BB
Hero (CO): 156 BB

6 players post ante of 0.1 BB, SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 2.1 BB) Hero has T♦ A♦

fold, MP raises to 3 BB, Hero raises to 9 BB, fold, fold, fold, MP calls 6 BB

Flop: (20.1 BB, 2 players) A♣ 5♦ 8♣
MP checks, Hero bets 6.3 BB, MP raises to 15 BB, Hero calls 8.7 BB

Turn: (50.1 BB, 2 players) K♦
MP bets 30 BB, Hero calls 30 BB

River: (110.1 BB, 2 players) K♠
MP bets 60.4 BB and is all-in, fold

I don't think i should of called the turn.
I think i should of folded the flop as i'm never ahead.

I'm still yet to show a profit in ANY session I've played. But I've improved. I feel like i'm break even / slightly winning if not winning now. Maybe.

Yesterdays sesh:

Also, hit gold! So watching some of w34z3l's videos to brush up on my strat.
GL

The ATdd hand: I think folding turn is the worst move, once turn, calling and planning to call or shove on the T and diamonds is better than folding (probably what you had planned). I'm playing just 1 stake below but if it's similar at NL10, I would feel very uncomfortable on the flop and imagine that I run vs a set trying to value Ax most of the time. Not sure what to do to be honest - and usually if I don't know what to do I am trying to have a more "GTO" approach.

Here, while ATdd is one of the worst Ax you have, you have 2 things going on for you: a) backdoor flush, which significantly improves your % of winning the hand vs a set (AhKh has 1.62% vs 88, AdTd has 5.25%), and b) you have no clubs in your hand, increasing the amount of bluffs your opponent can have, so I may end up playing the hand like you did actually.

Edit: we have 18.18% turn, if we plan to call only when we hit the nuts, we are calling 30 to win 50 (turn pot) + 30 (turn bet) + 60 (river shove), so 30 / (30+50.1+60.4+30) = 17.59 % of implied pot odds, actually not the easy call turn that I had imagined. There's 4.5% of rake capped at 1.5$, so if we call river the pot is 110.1 + 60.4 * 2 = 230.9, 4.5% of that is 10.39bb, so our real implied odds are 30 / (30+50.1+60.4+30 - rake) = 18.73%, so it means it's a fold because of the rake (if we put our opponent on 88/55).

The 6s5s hand: well I would think that it's more likely for a villain to cbet KQ/KJ/KT/QJ/QT/JT of spades that has backdoor straight and backdoor flush than for a villain to randomly decide to bluff here - what hands do you think he would bluff with? AK with the K of spades? It's one thing to think that any value hand makes no sense, but if bluffs also make no sense, calling because value does not make sense is not a good reason to do so anymore.

Originally posted by Swish29
The ATdd hand: I think folding turn is the worst move, once turn, calling and planning to call or shove on the T and diamonds is better than folding (probably what you had planned).

Yes.. My plan was to call a diamond. But when he bets so large...
In honesty i think i should just fold flop and be a nit here. Population is never making this play without something.
Also my PF 3b is probably borderline, i could call.

Originally posted by Swish29
The 6s5s hand: well I would think that it's more likely for a villain to cbet KQ/KJ/KT/QJ/QT/JT of spades that has backdoor straight and backdoor flush than for a villain to randomly decide to bluff here - what hands do you think he would bluff with? AK with the K of spades? It's one thing to think that any value hand makes no sense, but if bluffs also make no sense, calling because value does not make sense is not a good reason to do so anymore.

Yes, it doesn't make any sense either way. If he bets the flop with the KQss, why wouldn't you barrel a turn when it's heads up and you hit the spade?
The reason i call is he doesn't represent anything.
Either way, i should just herp derp fold the river. My brain is losing me WR. A raise on the river at NL10 is nuts nuts nuts.

I agree that he does not represent anything, but that also includes bluffs.

ATss honestly I have no idea in what range (3bet or call) it goes. If there are high squeezers behind I would probably 3bet, and in this case there is a guy without a full stack in SB, so probably not a genius, in which case I would call and play a MW pot