PLO10, facing donk river shove, fold??

Your BU open is a little too loose even 3way, the triple suit and the 63 double gap makes it a fold in a vacuum. You´d like to both have a T-high 2-card singlesuit and a little better connected SV. No big deal though if you do not drive it against the wall postflop.

On the flop both options are fine with our T♣:, we can either check or bet considering we block the bdfd and have nothin else going. There are different nuances that either favour our mid-set to check or bet. Roughly spoken we cbet around 75% of TT´s in a 6max setup. Solver is deviating its frequency depending on amount of backdoorflush cards. We´d check more often with the single bdfd-blocker and bet more often without it at all or having a triple bdfd (simplify here with betting 100%). Solver is cbetting 75% of the A♣: backdoornutflushblocker but since it is just such a tiny fraction I´d again simplify into cbetting all of our A♣:. According to the rank of the single bdfd-blocker we have GTO being perfectly balanced in a ratio around 1:2 checking: when betting low and mid-high blockers but to have something applicable I´d recommend mixing in some checks with the blockers lower than T♣: as it mimics solvers´ preferences (I assume this is because higher ranked bdnf-blockers make better bluffing candidates). Just be aware to not cbet 100% of your naked mid-sets as a default, that would weaken or check-back range too much.

The turn double-barrel is good, no reason to check it back. Make all the draws pay and get value from worse hands.

River bringing the obvious broadway straight (beside the more hidden wheel straight which is less relevant as low cards are played more infrequently) is still a fold. Most people have no donk-shoving bluff range otr as it intuitively feels like a crazy move (which technially it is not at all). If tendencies would not be so clear, we might call some of those as we unblock ♥ but personally I´d feel more comfortable calling with a straight-blocker.

I folded. I feel like I should call all hands with no and fold the rest, but maybe that's just the station in me talking=). I have seen players donk bet bluff but not donk shove. Am I crazy for thinking that being tri-suited is not that bad. In a way a it's good thing because it weights villain towards having no spades or single spade, thus unlikely of being dominated. Also theoretically OOP in this spot has midrange advantage so why would he donk shove? And donking with missed draws seems like a horrible idea.

I folded. I feel like I should call all hands with no and fold the rest, but maybe that's just the station in me talking=) . I have seen players donk bet bluff but not donk shove. Am I crazy for thinking that being tri-suited is not that bad. In a way a it's good thing because it weights villain towards having no spades or single spade, thus unlikely of being dominated. Also theoretically OOP in this spot has midrange advantage so why would he donk shove? And donking with missed draws seems like a horrible idea.

I feel like I should call all hands with no and fold the rest

No. Solver rarely calling 100% of the flushdraw unblocking sets so we usually can fold here some too gto-wise. Often villains´ tendencies are decisive and as I mentioned few people actually overbluff this spot. is a combo that is often around as it is played frequently preflop.

Range-wise we have to think if his story makes sense and yes it does, we usually should overfold here. Bluff shoves are less frequent because weak players are often related to the absolute amount of money they can win or lose during a hand so there is often something called an "allin inhibition threshold" which makes such river shoves very value-heavy in general. If they play too loose preflop, they ought to continue their loose frequencies postflop which would result in more allins and more variance. Folding is perfectly fine, on lower stakes you won´t get exploited here easily.

Am I crazy for thinking that being tri-suited is not that bad. In a way a it's good thing because it weights villain towards having no spades or single spade, thus unlikely of being dominated.

Not crazy, but having triple suit hurts us a lot technically. You must consider: First it is a little harder for us to actually flop a flushdraw and second when having a flushdraw, it´s like 2.5% missing equity dragging to the river. When comparing a 2-carded singlesuit with rainbow, a trip-suit belongs more to the rainbow suit strength, a quadruple suit is basically almost like a rainbow hand, so be very picky with those preflop. That postflop blocking effect you described does not play a role as it is so minor when taking into account the whole range and that there are so many suit combinations possible. We also would not differentiate when having a ♦ or ♣ instead of the ♠ because the only relevant flushdraw blocker is the ♥, so we have enough hands with unblocking effects that are better openings preflop. Blocking an actual or is more significant than unblocking the flushdraws.

Having triple suit does indeed weaken the hand for reasons mentioned above. But if we do get into spot where we have flush with triple suited hand and villain is repping high flush these hands does work as best sort of bluff catchers. Often when people take clearly polarizing lines on flushing runouts their value range is second nuts+ or sometimes even just nuts. So in practise its not that relevant if we have like third nuts or fifth nuts hand strength wise but its more of blocker value to different stuff.

River lead shove make sense for villain with nuts and some bluffs. Prime bluff combo could be something like JJT9 with fd. One crusial question that affect villain willingess to lead with nuts is how often are you value betting or bluffing versus river check? What would be bottom of your value range in that scenario?

Interesting, I thought gto-wise it's a call, because villain has way more fd combos than str8-combos making this a decent call. Especially considering how loose some players are.

Originally posted by ghaleon
Having triple suit does indeed weaken the hand for reasons mentioned above. But if we do get into spot where we have flush with triple suited hand and villain is repping high flush these hands does work as best sort of bluff catchers. Often when people take clearly polarizing lines on flushing runouts their value range is second nuts+ or sometimes even just nuts. So in practise its not that relevant if we have like third nuts or fifth nuts hand strength wise but its more of blocker value to different stuff.

+1

I don't think players take opponents willingness to value bet/bluff into account, at least not at below 1 spr. I just had similar situation on river but much deeper. I decided to call with top two and he had it. Makes feel better about this situation ♦.

Originally posted by BunBun00
I don't think players take opponents willingness to value bet/bluff into account, at least not at below 1 spr. I just had similar situation on river but much deeper. I decided to call with top two and he had it. Makes feel better about this situation ♦.

You should always take players willingness to bluff/value-bet into account as this determines our own action. As I said it is true, player often underbluff here for the reasons I have mentioned in other discussions (keyword allin inhibition threshold).

Our bluffcatcher is not determined to beat villains straights part of range.

At these stakes there are players who donk bluff rivers with missed draws, repping the other draw. But in my experience, they are minority. I think even 1:10 ratio might be too much. So if unknown opponent bluffs here 10% of times or less, it's an easy fold. If you think he might be bluffing, make a note to monitor his river aggression in similar spots. I think you can call in these spots when you have reads/notes on opponent.

Originally posted by Kyyberi
At these stakes there are players who donk bluff rivers with missed draws, repping the other draw. But in my experience, they are minority. I think even 1:10 ratio might be too much. So if unknown opponent bluffs here 10% of times or less, it's an easy fold. If you think he might be bluffing, make a note to monitor his river aggression in similar spots. I think you can call in these spots when you have reads/notes on opponent.

+1

Yes. Those blocker effect don´t play a role at lower stakes at the actual when it is about to take on our opponents. We´d still just value-town them at lower stakes as they overplay hands or bad positions and go out of the way of regulars who play too tight and straightforward. It is important though to understand how our own optimum ranges should look like and what to look out when constructing a theoretically sound gameplan (where we ingame just deviate instantly but we should always be aware of why we are doing what we are doing).