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AKT9ds vs good TAG

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Khiiniau
Joined: 21.08.2008

Villain is a good TAG, often folded on preflop to my 3bets and I wanted to see flop with this hand. Perfect hit on flop. Villain probably checks naked over pairs and pots JJ, QJ or QQ so is this place to make a small donk?

GG Poker - $0.02 PL Hi FAST (6 max) - Omaha Hi - 6 players
Hand converted by Holdem Manager 3

BTN: $0.70 (35 bb)
Hero (SB): $2.12 (106 bb)
BB: $0.40 (20 bb)
UTG: $0.64 (32 bb)
MP: $11.83 (591.5 bb)
CO: $2.18 (109 bb)

Hero posts SB $0.01, BB posts $0.02

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.03) Hero has A♣: K♣: 9♠: T♠:
fold, MP raises to $0.07, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.06, fold

Flop: ($0.16, 2 players) J♦: Q♣: 5♣:


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10 replies
ghaleon
Joined: 17.10.2007

Opponent folding to 3bets is just good thing overall. E.g. taking 5bb down preflop is nothing to sniff about. Hand would be fold to 4bet though but still standard 3bet.

As played flop and hand make good lead. These non A two broadway card flops hit really strong to solid SB calling range. We can also x-r I think but in general I prefer to have some made hand component for it. But this hand is just too strong for x-c.


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Mascherano95
Joined: 09.10.2010

This is a clear 3bet preflop. You basically should not call any hands preflop from SB.

Generally spoken yes you can sometimes donk strong hands like this with your normal (big) bet-sizing on that texture. If villain overplays vulnerable hands that need protection like naked :Qx: :Jx: it´s probably a nice exploit (to balance :Qx: :Qx: ). Check-raising is the alternative as villain is supposed to cbet this texture frequently as the pfa, you'd rather do that if villain bets more often but continues weakish on flop/turn.


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ghaleon
Joined: 17.10.2007

Late position opener at least should check a lot on these even if SB has sizable (maybe around 40% lead range). If SB has no leads cbet should be extremely low frequency like 20% maybe. Assuming solid preflop range. In practice though people tend to have way too wide ranges and cbetting wider is ok.

With early position tighter range this might change a bit but on other hand SB should be even more selective with calls. In high rake games having no SB calls is definitely option as well.


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Khiiniau
Joined: 21.08.2008

I checked and my plan was call small bet or normal cbet and x-r if villain pots. Turn 8♦: giving to me nuts and naked over pairs are dead but opening 2nd fd. I didn't want to give free river so I made my normal 75% valuebet. That also looks like typical donk in micros when fd opens. Get called and river nasty J♠: Based on villains check on flop there shoudn't be boats or quads but may get value from trips and overpairs. If I check villain may bluff with wide range and I have to make a hero call.


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BunBun00
Joined: 13.09.2023

To x-c small bets but raise pot bets seems counterintuitive. This flop hits both EP and SB so could go either way really. If donk betting and facing a raise, I would 3bet OTF.


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Coach
Kyyberi
Joined: 09.07.2010

If he folds pre, you are making 500bb/100 winrate with that hand.

Personally I don't like donking that much without reads at small stakes. But as you have read on opponent that he might not overcbet this flop, then lead is fine. If he would cbet this flop like normal micro players, I would c-raise this hand every time.

As played I don't think river is that nasty. As he checked flop, I would reduce the odds for him having a boat on the river. Check-call, unless we have info that he never bluffs. :)


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Mascherano95
Joined: 09.10.2010

Originally posted by Kyyberi
If he folds pre, you are making 500bb/100 winrate with that hand.

That was my thought too, not 3betting skipping massive profits. But how do you get that number?^^ Mathematically, if he folds 100% it´s 1000bb/100.^^ 2+1+7=10bb/hand basically.

If villain continues GTO, it´s like 1.1-1.2bb/100 hand-vs-range EV, the 3bet itself has 1.357 bb/100 in a GTO range-vs-range setup.


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Khiiniau
Joined: 21.08.2008

As I was quite sure villain doesn't have boat I made 50% valuebet and got called by K♠:K♦:5♠:6♥: dead already on turn. Turn 8♦: probably didn't look as obvious straight combining card on that double fd turn J♦:Q♣:5♣:8♦:

During my evening session I 3betted from SB against same kind of EP openers about 5 times. Only 2 calls, first folded to my cbet on flop with multidraw and second on rb turn against my flopped top 2.


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ghaleon
Joined: 17.10.2007

5bb or 500bb/100 comes from fact that there is 3.5+0.5+1=5bb in the middle when action comes to us. If we get fold we earn 5bb from the hand. Money we invest with 3bet is not counted and our SB is not anymore ours after posting it.

If our definition of bb meaning big blind is same. It seems like Macherano is using it as small blind.


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Mascherano95
Joined: 09.10.2010

Originally posted by ghaleon
5bb or 500bb/100 comes from fact that there is 3.5+0.5+1=5bb in the middle when action comes to us. If we get fold we earn 5bb from the hand. Money we invest with 3bet is not counted and our SB is not anymore ours after posting it.

If our definition of bb meaning big blind is same. It seems like Macherano is using it as small blind.

yeah 5bb. Nah i did not count dead money but did not see it's not shown in bb but in cents. (I always use "show in bb").


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