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Miss-play all the way through

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BunBun00
Joined: 13.09.2023

Loosey goosey game
UTG (140bb) min-opens, BU (300bb) 3bets 7♣:5♣:T♥:T♠:, BB (100bb) 4bets, BU calls
BB has been fairly quite, so very strong 4bet range. Anyway I thought about folding but I I had just enough pot odds to continue. That's the only metric I know in this situation. I know have pocket pair is bad but is it enough to make this hand a fold? I dunno.
Flop Q♠:5♠:T♦:, check, BU bets 50%, BB calls
Turn 3♠: SPR 0.6
BB checks again. What are you doing here? Are you checking back? I shoved. My thoughts are, many flushes would have donk shoved OTT. Also there are still many hands to get value from. Like AAKx, AAQ, AA4, with spade blocker. If he does have a flush, I'm giving my self 27% odds by shoving, while having around 22% equity, so not too bad. But at the same time I could have checked back and still gotten value OTR I think.

The reason I 3bet pre is because UTG loose passive splashy player. He was opening like 60%+. I view min-bets as checks so I just open my regular range.
Should have folded pre.


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4 replies
ghaleon
Joined: 17.10.2007

Your hand is total trash really so snap fold to UTG minraise. But I think we should focus on how bad it really is. Its barely even in BU open raise range with 0.04 EV. So it doesnt really matter what kind of player UTG is. We just wont make profit and 3bet is worst option. VPIP 60 guy is not folding pre so we bloat pot with trash.

Idea of opponent minraise being check or limp is just bad for preflop. On postflop its solid and as default I would also play in such way. So if I face minbet and I would have bet myself versus check I would then raise. But again this logic has no merit for preflop. You should keep eye on open sizings though. If someone does use multiple sizings its more often than not that it somewhat reflects the strength of their hand.

Call to cold 4bet is just money burning. Postflop wise SPR on flop is like 1.7 I suppose. So I would not have any bet-folding range with this low SPR and my only sizing would be to pot on this kind of flop. As played on turn SPR is low and we unblock all straight draws which make shove solid option imo.

But yeah preflop is area where we should focus here. I would analyze our range on TT by checking our BU range versus CO open. Then you can click in trainer to show EV difference and 0% combos:

So hand like JTT7 solver would call here as bottom. But maybe we can argue of taking bit wider calls as we face very wide range and price is also cheaper. So hand like TT86ss I would not mind to call even if in gto it shows 0.1 worse EV than fold. But keep in mind players behind. If they are aggro and know open raiser range is super wide and we try to play wide versus him then they might squeeze super wide. Anyway just as way to study how we could potentially widen our range.

For 3betting we would want to have smooth playability and hand like TT75 has very rough playability nor it pushes preflop equity advantage. So I would look more toward like ss rundowns that have connectivity or big pockets to widen 3bet range. So hands like KQT9ss, JT98ss, KKT8ss or AQ98ss I would be more happy to start 3betting with isolation versus good customer in mind.


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Mascherano95
Joined: 09.10.2010

Pre your hand is trash, flattig the 4bet is very bad.

On the flop you should gii with set at low spr on unpaired textures

Edit: the 3bet is bad too


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BunBun00
Joined: 13.09.2023

Reading your replies I was thinking why the hell did I call. I know to fold there as strong as KK$ds, AKK, etc.
Then I realized I called because of faulty logic. I was still considering the 4bet as a 3bet. And vs a 3bet tt57$ss is slight +ev call.

Vs a limp though isn't there merit in opening this hand. Yeah we're not pushing equity etc. But to build a pot as IP vs passive player has its merits no? Especially since eff stack was 140bb.

Post flop my thoughts sizing wise was to bet 50% OTF and 50% OTR. Makes turn play easier.

Turns out I was the loosey goosey all along :why:


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Coach
Kyyberi
Joined: 09.07.2010

Fold pre. If not, then fold on the second chance pre.

On the bigger picture, I would suggest that OP should spend some time in practising preflop ranges and especially thinking about what makes PLO hand strong or weak, and in HU or MW pots. In many posted hand histories the underlying problem is entering and bloating pots with hands that are bad for that. :)


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