[Closed] Jj 25/50

imo
preflop i like that call is ok (is early in tour blinds are low so u don't need to gamble and push here and also u got position and pot control . and btw i think JJ are worse pocket to play couse u think u r strong but they really not with TT u know u r not that strong

flop
u should bet here more like 500-600/650 and take it right away

turn i dont like to check here
Q is save card for me i dont think he got Q that often exept if he got QdXd for some combo flush/ back door str8 draw and i.m betting here 3/5 -2/3 pot
u can represent that u have 8 here cause remeber u just call preflop so u can easy have 89, 87 or somethink like that and if he got Q he wiill not raise u here. and u r protekting JJ from any over cards and dont let him draw u free

if he check raise me here he often got slowplayed boat, 8x, qq-AA in best scenario he got AQd/KQd/JQd/Q10d but he any way beats u and u got to fold here

river
if he calls my bets so far I'm not beting river if is checked to me
- only if J comes i bet 2/5 pot
- i might bet if 8 comes on river 2/5 pot
- but if d came on river or Q or 6 or any other card alike AKT i'm cheking behind
if that guy push all in i on river I'm thinking to fold here

p.s. now i realise that u cant just bet 3/5 - 2/3pot on turn here couse with ur stack u r pot comiting and cant fold ur hand any way on river so u got to push all in on turn.
so.. imo u make BIG mistake betting so weak on flop and with that bet u dont know were u r in the hand

Your call preflop means you play for set value with so many players in the hand. You preferred more passive way with JJ which is OK, so in the hand you play for pot control more often than to build a big pot. If u 3bet preflop u could easily go broke on the flop.
On the flop you have overpair and everyone checks to you. 2/3 bet on the flop is optimal since u want to see where u at.
Passive guys calls which can mean str draw, FD, full or trips.
Probably on the turn i would check cause more hands beat us there and if you bet u are pot committed.
Good value bet on the river!

Originally posted by bah22
Your call preflop means you play for set value with so many players in the hand. You preferred more passive way with JJ which is OK, so in the hand you play for pot control more often than to build a big pot. If u 3bet preflop u could easily go broke on the flop.
On the flop you have overpair and everyone checks to you. 2/3 bet on the flop is optimal since u want to see where u at.
Passive guys calls which can mean str draw, FD, full or trips.
Probably on the turn i would check cause more hands beat us there and if you bet u are pot committed.
Good value bet on the river!

imo
u r not playing for set value with JJ they r good often enough without emproving to set if flop comes with no overcards and or a good flop like this 1

Originally posted by bah22
Probably on the turn i would check cause more hands beat us there and if you bet u are pot committed.
Good value bet on the river!

check turn and let him draw for free???
how come more hands can beat u on flop than on river and u should check turn but bet river for value. let me tell u couple more hands that got u on river that u were beating bad on turn JTd(backdoor flush /str8/str8flushdraw), 75d(open ended str8/str8flushdraw), 75s(open ended str8/backdoor flush /str8flushdraw), 99 and vilain can play all this hands pasivly so..

Originally posted by TheRebuz

Originally posted by bah22
Your call preflop means you play for set value with so many players in the hand. You preferred more passive way with JJ which is OK, so in the hand you play for pot control more often than to build a big pot. If u 3bet preflop u could easily go broke on the flop.
On the flop you have overpair and everyone checks to you. 2/3 bet on the flop is optimal since u want to see where u at.
Passive guys calls which can mean str draw, FD, full or trips.
Probably on the turn i would check cause more hands beat us there and if you bet u are pot committed.
Good value bet on the river!

imo
u r not playing for set value with JJ they r good often enough without emproving to set if flop comes with no overcards and or a good flop like this 1

Originally posted by bah22
Probably on the turn i would check cause more hands beat us there and if you bet u are pot committed.
Good value bet on the river!

check turn and let him draw for free???
how come more hands can beat u on flop than on river and u should check turn but bet river for value. let me tell u couple more hands that got u on river that u were beating bad on turn JTd(backdoor flush /str8/str8flushdraw), 75d(open ended str8/str8flushdraw), 75s(open ended str8/backdoor flush /str8flushdraw), 99 and vilain can play all this hands pasivly so..

Well if u think u have the best hand why would u just call and not 3bet???
I would usually 3bet in this situation preflop and bet all streets. Since we just called and we have to see the flop with 3 more players, our hand loses some value. On that flop u are often ahead but can't be sure cause some of them can easily call with middle pp.
It is much easier when u see the villain's hand!
PLtotoryl, pls don't post the results!

Originally posted by bah22
Well if u think u have the best hand why would u just call and not 3bet???
I would usually 3bet in this situation preflop and bet all streets. Since we just called and we have to see the flop with 3 more players, our hand loses some value. On that flop u are often ahead but can't be sure cause some of them can easily call with middle pp.
It is much easier when u see the villain's hand!
PLtotoryl, pls don't post the results!

u r not 3 beting preflop cause is early i tour and there is raise and call before and u ur stack is not big enough for 3bet and u don't want to play big pot with ur JJ preflop couse if u reraise and got called in 1-2 spots or even got reraised what would u do??
if u 3 bet and got called in 1-2 spots flop came something like AQ8 u can win much here...
but if u just flat call and got good flop for u can win a nice pot and lose less when u miss
and if flop came something like A94 or K75 and is check here u can take it right a way.
the main reason for calling is pot control with position in early stage of tour

Originally posted by TheRebuz

Originally posted by bah22
Well if u think u have the best hand why would u just call and not 3bet???
I would usually 3bet in this situation preflop and bet all streets. Since we just called and we have to see the flop with 3 more players, our hand loses some value. On that flop u are often ahead but can't be sure cause some of them can easily call with middle pp.
It is much easier when u see the villain's hand!
PLtotoryl, pls don't post the results!

u r not 3 beting preflop cause is early i tour and there is raise and call before and u ur stack is not big enough for 3bet and u don't want to play big pot with ur JJ preflop couse if u reraise and got called in 1-2 spots or even got reraised what would u do??
if u 3 bet and got called in 1-2 spots flop came something like AQ8 u can win much here...
but if u just flat call and got good flop for u can win a nice pot and lose less when u miss
and if flop came something like A94 or K75 and is check here u can take it right a way.
the main reason for calling is pot control with position in early stage of tour

OK. My approach is different. I would 3bet it to 600. If the raiser goes over the top i would fold and not committing any more chips. If someone calls, reevaluate the flop. In this example good flop for us and easy bet/push on the flop!
Lets say here you just call and it is 886 and the original raiser cbet like 400! The second guy calls, whats your play? You might call and re-evaluate on the turn but this way you actually invest much more chips without even know where u stand!
I like my way of play because it is easier to play and won't get u in a tricky situations!
Best regards,

if guy cbet and guy after him calls i can't see call there is push all in or fold.
i like ur way too.
i play 3bet 70% of time but here i think is so early in tour and after early raiser and 1 caller better play is to just call and wait for flop cause
if u 3bet here is great if u win it right away
but if u got called in 1 or 2 spots u dot really have a save cards that can came
- overcards Q-A can beat ur JJ and T-2 can vilain can hit set or 2 pairs
and u need to invest 1/4 of ur stack to 3bet here. and after that ur Cbet on flop must be much biger if is it check to u and u got some flop that u like to CB
regards

It is good discussion going on! ♠_biggrin:
But if you play call preflop and the raiser cbet vs 3player he must have something!
So going all-in here it would be big mistake imo! Cause there is only TT/99 where u are way ahead. He can have AKd/AQd for 50/50 or QQ+ where you are way behind and you can't make all of them to fold! Plus if u have one more guy in the pot!
So pretty tricky situation!

3-bet pre imo, you want to get drawing hands out of there. I would bet turn and call, or check behind river.

so here is my opinion ♦
preflop just calling is fine against unknown.
because your JJ isnt that strong against unknowns raising range from UTG+1.
against a lag im defenitly 3betting here and go broke if he shoves.
but against unknown i like the call for deception and set value.
on that board you have to bet with all those checks in front of you.
but i would bet more, like 500.
on the turn i would stil bet.
the queen doesnt hurt you, because he is not calling with AQ on that board too often. so bet the turn to charge the possible draws.
on the river i`d check behind, because there are not many hands weaker then yours which can call on that wet board.
btw, if he c/c he isnt TAG but Tight weak
and if he plays c/c i still would bet the turn, check behind river.