[Closed] My poker career ~~

Thanks for the first post, undercover82! ♦

I think it was +EV to read all this because it is nice to see for every member that - although there are many ups and downs in poker - you win big in the long run.

Concerning your SSS-Stack question: I recommend at least 30 Stacks for NL1000 SSS which means a minimum of $6000 (if I calculated it correctly).

Please keep going with your reports

Good luck at the tables!
Puschkin81

Does anyone experienced have any suggestion on how many stacks would be nice to start playing on NL1000$ with SSS?

Whilst I'm certainly not qualified to answer your question by direct experience at the tables, I do feel that I have something useful to say.

It is intuitevly obvious that someone such as yourself who has built up a BR from scratch could also repair any holes you might make in your roll should you lose a few BI's at a higher limit. As you may already know, the "Kelly Criterion" is a concept used by investment managers in order to maximize the growth of investment portfolios whilst at the same time managing risk (ie.losing/depleting the investors initial stake in a manner which is injurious to future growth ). You need to find out how "Kelly" applies in your case. You will have quite a robust BR strategy for your trouble.

Interesting post BTW.

Thx for the feedback.
I already have 30+ stacks but as i said i prefer a conservative approach ♦ especially because i dont really have stats from many players on that limit and that could be a problem , at the beginning at least. I m mostly wondering if i should stick to the 40 stacks rule or if it is better to wait for 50+ on the higher limits.

Your use of english is a bit too complex nunki but i suppose you mean that this criterion combines the fastest possible bankroll growth without risking loss of my whole stack. I am rather patient with climbing up though because i wanna feel that i am good enough for advancing without getting owned.

BTW i have noticed that lately i almost always go directly all in after a raise instead of raising the standard 3x. For example if someone raises 4 BB and i have around 20 BB , instead of raising to the standard 12 i go directly all in. The only exception is when there is a minraise i guess.
I am wondering sometimes whether its the right thing , or if i simplify my play too much and i lose value.

BTW i have noticed that lately i almost always go directly all in after a raise instead of raising the standard 3x. For example if someone raises 4 BB and i have around 20 BB , instead of raising to the standard 12 i go directly all in. The only exception is when there is a minraise i guess.

Me too. I find that some villains are a bit more curious if I go AI directly (NL10). I tend to make a std. re-raise more often on a re-steal.

Your use of english is a bit too complex nunki but i suppose you mean that this criterion combines the fastest possible bankroll growth without risking loss of my whole stack.

Yes exactly (although of course there is always a finite chance that you go bust no matter how you manage your BR).

Eg. You could take 5 stacks and see how you go. If you lose them then you grind them back at a lower level and try again. "Kelly" will suggest an optimal risk-adjusted strategy for BR growth.

Glad to see that you are doing fine. Hoping also someday to reach 1000$, but there is still long way to go (mostly because I´m having all the time downswings:D). I also wanted to ask some question: how important is pokertracker- I think that it could be very useful example for steeling or open pushes in SSS. I try to reach 2000 PP and hopefully I can get free license next month.

nice read!

and also big thanks for always giving constructive comments on the sample hands forum, very much appreciated & I've learned a lot from them.

So , i ve made my first steps in NL1000 , i cant say it has treated me very well so far although some opponents are really really bad. Notable beats include AKs vs QTs preflop all in , KK vs A7o preflop all in , AQo vs Q2s (People dont call that shit even on the lower limits. Same guy called me later with 64o and once again i didnt get paid since i had to avoid contibetting with just overcards vs 2 people). Other than that ive lost the coinflips of AK vs QQ JJ as well. Here is the hand that has scarred me so far (not for life hopefully ♦ )

Known players: (for a description of vp$ip, pfr, ats, folded bb, af, wts, wsd or hands click here)     
[tg]Position_Stack:hands/vp$ip/pfr/af/wts/ats/foldbb/w$sd;SB$364.35:181/35/1/0.0/29/88/9/45;Hero$481:///////;BU$647:8/25/0/0.0/100/0/0/100;MP1$715:86/33/8/0.4/27/40/8/57;[/tg]
5/10 No-Limit Hold'em (9 handed)
Hand recorder used for this poker hand: Texas Grabem 1.7 by www.pokerstrategy.cc.

Preflop: Hero is CO with K♥, K♠
2 folds, MP1 raises to $30.00, 2 folds, Hero raises to $90.00, BU calls $90.00, SB calls $85.00, BB folds, MP1 calls $60.00.

Flop: ($370.00) 5♦, 9♥, 2♠ (4 players)
SB checks, MP1 checks, Hero bets $180, BU calls $180.00, SB raises to $274.35 (All-In), MP1 folds, Hero calls $94.35, BU calls $94.35.

Turn: ($1193.05) 6♦ (2 players)
Hero bets $116.65 (All-In), BU calls $116.65.

River: ($1426.35) A♣

Final Pot: $1426.35

Results follow (highlight to see):
SB shows [ 9s, Th ] a pair of Nines
Hero shows [ Kh, Ks ] a pair of Kings
BU shows [ 8h, 7h ] a straight Five to Nine
BU wins $233.30 USD with a straight, Five to Nine.
BU wins $1,190.05 USD with a straight, Five to Nine.

I had already more than doubled up and waiting to get blinded out , then i get this hand , ofc i cant fold it and i reraise to isolate him , but i get 3 calls , and all hell breaks loose =[. I am thinking i could have just gone all in preflop and run away safely or i should go all in either way on the flop rather than making the HPSB. But anyway , i am not used yet at handling such amounts of $ .

I dont think ive made too many mistakes yet , there were 2 cases in unraised pot where i acted more aggresive than i should while i didnt have anything /was on a draw and i lost a few extra BB . There was another hand i held T9 on the SB , flop comes 998 , 2 suited , i decided to slowplay with 5 people acting after me and sadly noone bets , then turn comes J and i bet but it was too late , someone got their gutshot with QT =[. I thought i am good since i held the T and it was less possible that someone got a straight but naaa:/ .
Last hand where i think i might find a fold (but i called) is raising UTG with JJ and getting reraised all in by UTG+1 of 7% PFR. He was no shortstack but still as tight as one. I think they need to fix the SSS guide on that part :P.

I ll invest a few more stacks into it and if it doesnt get better i ll fall back and grow my bankroll to an even bigger amount before trying again . Although i dont think i am that crippled in skill , rather have had mostly bad luck in situations where i was favorite (After all i am only playing in these tables when i see profitable situations , aka fish opponents)and i hope that this period will end soon :O.

And about the pokertracker : its a really valuable tool that can help you in many situations as long as you get used to it. Putting your opponent on a hand range depending on his stats is pretty useful.

Hi Undercover!

What a bad beat! You played your Kings correctly but sometimes the poker god isn't nice.
Concerning your T9 hand: Yup, it was a mistake (like it is almost always) to slowplay here

I like your stories! Please go on! ♦

Good luck at the tables!
Puschkin81

Originally posted by Puschkin81
Concerning your SSS-Stack question: I recommend at least 30 Stacks for NL1000 SSS which means a minimum of $6000 (if I calculated it correctly).

I would play SSS on higher limits more conservativly then you recommended. I at least would only play NL 1k with 50 Buy-Ins meaning $ 10k.

Originally posted by Kaitz20
I also wanted to ask some question: how important is pokertracker- I think that it could be very useful example for steeling or open pushes in SSS.

For the SSS under the limit NL $200 you do not net Pockertracker Stats and Poker Ace, because their are so many bad players that you can make 1-2 BB/100 without Stats.
And even if you use PT and PA you need a huge Database with hundredthousands of hands, because for you as a SSS-Player only the VPIP, ATS, Folding BB is important to know. And for the ATS (Attent to Steal) only an Openraise from the CO or BU counts. So you need a huge sample size to get a number who is near reality.

Hi Undercover,

great to see that you play the SSS on NL $1k I hope I can play their soon for myself.

For that KK hand, if you know that the other players behind you were pretty loose you might should have reraised preflop a bit more (maybe 4-5 times of the original raise). And yes on the Flop against 3 opponents you eitherway want to go All-In with your Overpair (to eliminate Draws etc.) cause only a hitted Set beats you here.

yo uc, u dont usually idle on MSN ? i added u some days ago and still didnt catch u online once.. i wanna talk to ya (u know me from wc3)

Personally, I disagree with the whole concept of SSS (I may be wrong, I may be naive, but hey this is my opinion). Limiting your hands in such a strategy makes you predictable, particularly in higher limit games, better players can read you comfortably.

I think there's alot of merit in playing hands such as 67 suited, j9 suited, and even tony g's favourite 10-8 offsuit. I just think it makes you more elusive and harder to read. challenge me !

If your postflop skills are so good and you have very good reads, then why not raise UTG with T8:) at least nobody puts you on that hand. SSS strategy is based on very good hands and I don´t have to make all-in blufs or big raises to win, also I don´t have to make good laydowns (I´m playing 9 tables and 1-2BB is good enough:))

Originally posted by samjazzykins
Personally, I disagree with the whole concept of SSS (I may be wrong, I may be naive, but hey this is my opinion). Limiting your hands in such a strategy makes you predictable, particularly in higher limit games, better players can read you comfortably.

I think there's alot of merit in playing hands such as 67 suited, j9 suited, and even tony g's favourite 10-8 offsuit. I just think it makes you more elusive and harder to read. challenge me !

What do you think why we are teaching you this strategy? Why are some of our SSS players able to play NL5000 and win 1-2BB/100? Because it is successful!

Oh...and back to our topic: How is it going, undercover?

Good luck at the tables!
Puschkin81

Originally posted by samjazzykins
Personally, I disagree with the whole concept of SSS (I may be wrong, I may be naive, but hey this is my opinion). Limiting your hands in such a strategy makes you predictable, particularly in higher limit games, better players can read you comfortably.

I think there's alot of merit in playing hands such as 67 suited, j9 suited, and even tony g's favourite 10-8 offsuit. I just think it makes you more elusive and harder to read. challenge me !

You clearly don't understand the SSS at all, and possibly don't understand the art of reading.

A SSS player plays every hand he elects to play the same way. He raises preflop and makes a continuation bet 90% of the time. From early positions he onoly plays premiums and even his steal raises have showdown value, so we can estimate his hand range quite well. But if we're sitting on T8o, that's only going to let us cut our losses as he doesn't have enough money behind. Now maybe you think that we can steal every single pot where he didn't hit from him on the turn, and that might be true for a formulaic tight player (but not any thinking player, and a SSS player has to be one of those too outside of the micro limits), but the short stack is usually committed on the turn or there is no turn. To get the precise reads you need to put money in, and that's what the short stack wants you to do with weak holdings, and by then it doesn't help you against a short stack, you've already paid him.

And T8o is no winning texas hold'em player's actual favourite hand. That's AA, every time. It is among tony's favourites, but that's because his hand ranking goes AA, KK, a few other premiums, any two cards.

Your main targets with the SSS are not the good players , but the fishes who exist in every limit. Against their loose call range your hand is usually a big favorite. So it doesnt matter very much if you are mostly readable by the good players since you ll still make money by the bad ones.

Concerning my news i ll just say this : So far ive played 8 big pots with KK and ive won 2. My losses were KK vs AA , KK vs JJ , KK vs 77 , KK vs ATs , KK vs 87s , KK vs A7o. I put my money in when ahead in all of these (except AA ofcourse). Shit.

At least im still doing good in the lower limits and my bankroll hasnt taken a huge hit.

That's bad luck. But it means that you will win with KK more often in the future - statistically!

Good luck at the tables!
Puschkin81

I am STILL losing money in nl1000 (I have lost pretty much every coinflip and i swear i havent gotten a single set over 3000 hands AND KK after the flop has reached 2 out of 10 wins when it got to showdown ♦ ) but im actually doing pretty good in every limit below that so i am up overall last few days.

Strangely enough my AA won over 97o but i want some feedback on the hand. Very fishy aggresive opponent with 17% PFR raises from MP and everyone folds to me sitting on the SB. Now the question is , against someone who often raises with trash do i go all in and probably only get the 40$ or do i flatcall to gain at least the extra continuation bet, also hoping perhaps for a squeeze from the (good player) BB?

Known players: (for a description of vp$ip, pfr, ats, folded bb, af, wts, wsd or hands click here)       
[tg]Position_Stack:hands/vp$ip/pfr/af/wts/ats/foldbb/w$sd;MP1$332.75:103/54/17/0.5/41/175/7/50;Hero$175:///////;[/tg]
5/10 No-Limit Hold'em (9 handed)
Hand recorder used for this poker hand: Texas Grabem 1.7 by www.pokerstrategy.cc.

Preflop: Hero is SB with A♦, A♣
2 folds, MP1 raises to $40.00, 4 folds, Hero calls $35.00, BB folds.

Flop: ($90.00) 7♥, 8♣, Q♠ (2 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets $50, Hero raises to $135.00 (All-In), MP1 calls $85.00.

Turn: ($360.00) 8♥
River: ($360.00) T♥

Final Pot: $360.00

Results follow (highlight to see):
MP1 shows [ 9d, 7s ] two pairs, Eights and Sevens
Hero shows [ Ad, Ac ] two pairs, Aces and Eights
Hero wins $357 USD with two pairs, Aces and Eights.

Finally the gods of poker have smiled upon me and i performed a HUGE suckout on someone for a change ♦ . My flop equity was at 4%. I went directly all in preflop because a proper raise would mean that my remaining stack would be half the pot , so i was commited anyway and i wanted to maximize my fold equity.

5/10 No-Limit Hold'em (10 handed)
Hand recorder used for this poker hand: Texas Grabem 1.7 by www.pokerstrategy.cc.

Preflop: Hero is UTG+2 with Q♥, A♥. CO posts a blind of $10.00.
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls $10.00, Hero raises to $130.00 (All-In), 7 folds, UTG+1 calls $120.00.

Flop: ($285.00) 4♥, 9♦, 5♠
Turn: ($285.00) 2♥
River: ($285.00) T♥

Final Pot: $285.00

Results follow (highlight to see):
Hero shows [ Qh, Ah ] a flush, Ace high
UTG+1 shows [ 9s, 9h ] three of a kind, Nines
Hero wins $282 USD with a flush, Ace high.

And another question. I sit on the BB with KQo. LAG with 16% PFR and 4/5 attempts to steal raises first in from MP3. Everyone else folds. Push or fold?