[Closed] 11$ 55, from the BB, bubble

its +EV to shove pre flop. i would shove (even for 16bb effective)

i hate raising because you put yourself in horrible positions with an awkward stack size if you miss a set (which is almost always).

flop as played ; no set no bet. no point in trying fancy bluffs on the bubble. (there is actually no point in bluffing at all in sng's, its only appropriate in very specific situations)

ps. a big mistake with people playing mid-low pocket pairs pre flop is they "dont want to get into a race". This is not the correct mind-set in a SnG. your hand equity wise is ahead of his open limping range and if he limp/folds a lot of his hands (which he usually will) it makes your push even better.

you also get calls from A2,A3,A4,44,33 type hands which you have crushed etc etc...

i see this a lot from many new players. you are not always 'racing' and he is not always calling and when he does you sometimes have him dominated.

Hi all,

Originally posted by lessthanthreee
its +EV to shove pre flop. i would shove (even for 16bb effective)

i hate raising because you put yourself in horrible positions with an awkward stack size if you miss a set (which is almost always).

flop as played ; no set no bet. no point in trying fancy bluffs on the bubble. (there is actually no point in bluffing at all in sng's, its only appropriate in very specific situations)

ps. a big mistake with people playing mid-low pocket pairs pre flop is they "dont want to get into a race". This is not the correct mind-set in a SnG. your hand equity wise is ahead of his open limping range and if he limp/folds a lot of his hands (which he usually will) it makes your push even better.

you also get calls from A2,A3,A4,44,33 type hands which you have crushed etc etc...

i see this a lot from many new players. you are not always 'racing' and he is not always calling and when he does you sometimes have him dominated.

Nice analysis! And I agree with changing the mindset in these situations.

While I do basically agree with what lessthantree said about the "mimimi I don't wanna flip"-mentality, I really think shoving right here is much closer and certainly not +EV under any circumstances like you might think. Check this out: When SB is limping a 100% and calling you with 15% shoving is -0.05. Limping 50% and calling 15% shoving is -0.64. The only way to get this +ev is if you know that SB will raise his strong raise instead of limping them. Like when he limps 20-65% and calls 20-30% shoving is +0.29. However, wiz assumes that you fold rather then check. But I feel like a lot of these guys just c/f the flop (or bet small and give up turn) when they don't have any piece of it so often that checking and playing postflop has significant value for you (apart from 55 having decent showdown value IP anyway).
So after all when you do shove, make sure that a) he has a decent stealing range and is raising the strong part of his range, b) has a wide limping range in generel and c) is aggressive postflop which makes checking a bad option for you. However, don't just blindly shove 55 because I has 55!!

listen to what hazz said. reads are always crucial in spots like this.

i think 77 is a lot clearer however i havent done the icm calc for it.

Originally posted by hazzelde
While I do basically agree with what lessthantree said about the "mimimi I don't wanna flip"-mentality, I really think shoving right here is much closer and certainly not +EV under any circumstances like you might think. Check this out: When SB is limping a 100% and calling you with 15% shoving is -0.05. Limping 50% and calling 15% shoving is -0.64. The only way to get this +ev is if you know that SB will raise his strong raise instead of limping them. Like when he limps 20-65% and calls 20-30% shoving is +0.29. However, wiz assumes that you fold rather then check. But I feel like a lot of these guys just c/f the flop (or bet small and give up turn) when they don't have any piece of it so often that checking and playing postflop has significant value for you (apart from 55 having decent showdown value IP anyway).
So after all when you do shove, make sure that a) he has a decent stealing range and is raising the strong part of his range, b) has a wide limping range in generel and c) is aggressive postflop which makes checking a bad option for you. However, don't just blindly shove 55 because I has 55!!

While I agree with this, it's not unreasonable for us to exclude some of the top of his range from his limping range preflop. No history has been given for us to assume he is always trapping here. I don't think we can fully exclude all the top range of hands all the time, however we can exclude enough to make this a profitable push. your c) is somewhat of a consideration here but I would tend to apply it more to a hand like T9s than 55 (where we are so so so so often flipping when we push + get called).