Skip to forum
Notifications
Clear all

[Closed] NL200SH ATo hits turn river line?

5 Posts
3 Users
0 Reactions
52 Views
caltabiano
Joined: 09.03.2007

Grabbed by Holdem Manager
NL Holdem $2(BB) Replayer
SB ($200)
BB ($207)
Hero ($251)
UTG+1 ($162)
CO ($163)
BTN ($194)

Dealt to Hero T♣ A♠

Hero raises to $8, fold, CO calls $8, BTN calls $8, SB calls $7, fold

FLOP ($34) 8♠ 5♥ 9♠

SB checks, Hero checks, CO checks, BTN checks

TURN ($34) 8♠ 5♥ 9♠ A♣

SB checks, Hero bets $22, CO calls $22, BTN calls $22, SB folds

RIVER ($100) 8♠ 5♥ 9♠ A♣ 9♥

Hero bets ???

Here's the thing:

CO is a big fish who could have any A and BTN is a 24/17, not aggro pre.
So on the river I think we have a clear vbet against the fish. The thing is that BTN could easily have an AJ or AQ.
I guess a 9 is highly unlikely for any of them to have, since they might have bet flop. Although the fish is the passive type and could potentially have it.

My thought was ship it becasue the CO doesn't fold an A AND as a bonus, BTN might fold AJ or maybe AQ. Do you think thats plausible?

Or would you go instead for the smaller bet trying to get the CO to call 77-87?? He has a 37 WTSD, but even then he's gotta be able to fold something that marginal, I suppose.

Another consideration is that if we bet small, BTN will be much more likely to call something like AJ and then we end up not getting value against CO.


4 replies
caltabiano
Joined: 09.03.2007
Bierbaer
Joined: 27.05.2005

I also think I'd bet against CO.
But in my opinion shoving might look too strong, so by overbet-shipping CO might be able to fold Ax (IMO).
So even though BU might show up with better Ax sometimes I'd go for a $35 bet.
I think BU won't have better aces too often as imo he would bet A9 on the flop and 3bet AK preflop.
I think he's also 3betting AQ quite a bit pre even though he's not too aggro - it wouldn't be as a bluff but for value, the same applies for AJ.

I would only consider shoving if I had a read that CO is capable of huge herocalls.
The point is that in my experience even big fish notice that the board paired, for whatever reason they notice that the board pairs more often than they notice incoming flushes and straights.
That experience mostly comes from livegames where you can easily observe at what points people struggle [or let's say at which points they perceive the opponents range to be strong and hesitate to invest more money in the pot], but a fish is a fish for a reason so imo it applies for onlinepoker as well.

You should also take into account that BU probably calls all his better hands anyway, regardless of your betsize (okay not completely regardless, but for most "normal" betsizes that statement is true).
But by betting smaller his callinrange probably also increases - and every hand that gets in there is a hand we beat.


caltabiano
Joined: 09.03.2007

But I think that BTN has an A very often here and i doubt he ever calls a weak Ax to any bet, because I'm never bluffing here. And he will realise that.
He definitely calls AJ/AQ to a small bet though, becasue I could be vbetting somewhat thin against the fish.
So I think the best play against the BTN is to shove, becasue he only calls me with a better ace IMO (if it was HU me and him, it'd be totally different of course)
And I really think he will be capable of folding AJ at the very least.
Also, I don't belive he'll be squeezing AJ/AQ for value. He definitely can't do that against me, because my range fr continuing will definitely be a lot stronger than those hands. I'm raising UTG and there's a fish in the hand. He's got a lot more value by just flatting pre to keep the fish in the hand. He's got the button, it'd be a waste to squeeze that IMO.
If he was squeezing these hands pre, then I totally agree with betting smaller.

And the fish was super loose. I really think he might call a shove with Ax. It's somewhat of a grey area, but I'd definitely be willing to bet on it. He was extremely loose by what I had seen.


A SQ with hands like AT+, KQ etc. is even mandatory with the fish in the hand I would say. You would love to get HU in position vs the fish that will call the SQ with so many hands you dominate. So if BU is a good reg he should be 3betting this on the BU.