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[Closed] nl200 99 vs regular 150bb deep

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eszibit
Joined: 10.12.2007

iPoker - $2 NL - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

BB: $189.00
UTG: $200.00
MP: $239.32
Hero (CO): $381.80
BTN: $325.05 25/18/2/26 800hands
SB: $200.00

SB posts SB $1.00, BB posts BB $2.00

Pre Flop: (pot: $3.00) Hero has 9♦ 9♥

fold, MP raises to $6.00, Hero calls $6.00, BTN calls $6.00, fold, fold

Flop: ($21.00, 3 players) 5♠ 9♠ T♠
MP checks, Hero bets $18.00, BTN raises to $50.00, fold, Hero raises to $128.25, BTN calls $78.25

Turn: ($277.50, 2 players) 2♦
Hero checks, BTN bets $190.80, Hero calls $190.80

River: ($659.10, 2 players) 8♣

I really hate his raise on the flop and i think that a big part of his range are flushes but i guess he can make this with T9 ,55 ,TT? I try to go allin on the flop when i still have some equity but he just calls and then shoves turn,i almost timed out but eventually called (feeling sick about it) I have two questions ,should i of made my raise bigger or shoved? And second one if u have a gut feeling about something should u follow it even though this is a setup?


4 replies
Bierbaer
Joined: 27.05.2005

Preflop is ok.

I like your betsizing on the flop!
You already stated some assumptions about his raisingrange an I agree.
The question is: why would you 3bet?
Assuming his range is T9, 55, TT we can basically ignore 55 and TT because the number of combinations is the same and he is probably going broke with both of them so they don't change our equity in the pot overall.

T9s (imo he is folding T9o almost always preflop) has exactly 1 combination.
So of the numerous hands he could have there is 1 valuecombination we beat, some bluffs - and the rest are flushes against which we're behind.
There is really no reason to 3bet against this range. If we get money in the pot it is because we get the odds to call for a full house.
Board: Ts 9s 5s
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 61.364% 61.19% 00.17% 7875 22.50 { AsJs, AsTs, As9s, As8s, As7s, As6s, Tc9c }
Hand 1: 38.636% 38.46% 00.17% 4950 22.50 { 99 }
We are not in terrible shape, but we're still getting the money in as an underdog.

As played we need 190/660=0.288 = 28.8 equity and we have
Board: Ts 9s 5s 2d
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 71.678% 71.68% 00.00% 410 0.00 { AsJs, AsTs, As9s, As8s, As7s, As6s, Tc9c }
Hand 1: 28.322% 28.32% 00.00% 162 0.00 { 99 }

So shoving is mandatory IMO, I wouldn't fold due to 0.5% missing in equity since he could show up with non flushes from time to time and therefore we could easily have some % foldequity which means the shove is +EV.

Originally posted by eszibitAnd second one if u have a gut feeling about something should u follow it even though this is a setup?

I would never follow such a feeling, selective memory compromises your thoughts very easily so I don't think playing based on feelings will ever get you good results (as long as you don't have measurable indicators that lead to the feeling).


eszibit Topic starter
eszibit
Joined: 10.12.2007

Hope it's a good place to post because I tried in the general poker discussion and nobody really answered

Ok ,so I play nl200 Bss SH .

I'll try to be brief about a couple of problems I would like some feedback on.

Because i table select much i ussually end up playing a very nitty style like 18/16 cuz the Lag or calling stations and i just try to get in big pots with the fish.

:hAgainst an aggressive fish that minraises on 992r and i have TT OOP is it ok to play for stacks -reraise/push or just call and fold to another barrell? I'm new to the table and don't have any reads.

:cAgainst a regular is it ok to play KK on T83ss/4/Js bet/fold bet/fold bet/fold?

:sIf I have KK overpair and a passive fish check raises turn should I go allin or just fold and try to only value bet him (let's say the board is T45r/7)

Should i play for stacks with 2 pair on AKT and i have KT against a regular? Is it just a cooler if he has QJ ,AK etc?

if the fish plays something like 50/20/3/30 and i have QQ on J66 and he check raises flop or turn is that standard to go broke? lately i'm only running into trips

3-way pot if i hit bottom set on an extremely dry board on playing with weak-tight regulars on K28r and there is a bunch of action from them can i fold it for 100BB ,what about 200BB ?

If i get a cold caller when i 3 bet with AA and c.bet on KQT and he raises can i fold there? that hits his range very good for cold call (talking about regulars )

i have a very low ATS because players defend their blindes extremelly agressive,should i cold call more often if i raise from button and he reraises and I have 77,88,AJ,AT,A9,KQ,JK,KT,QT

AK vs fish is bet/bet/allin on Ahigh dry board? if he raises with 2 pair and we get it in it's just a cooler?

What do massive overbets ussualy mean coming from fish? I ran once into AQ on KK5/A (pot was 24$ and he donked shoved 190BB 380$-btw,is this a cooler if he has KQ,KJ,AK,55 and i have KT ?) and once into nuts .

This are more theoreticall question,feel free to move it if it shouldn't be here
Thanks a lot for taking the time to help me


Bierbaer
Joined: 27.05.2005

Originally posted by eszibit

Because i table select much i ussually end up playing a very nitty style like 18/16 cuz the Lag or calling stations and i just try to get in big pots with the fish.

:hAgainst an aggressive fish that minraises on 992r and i have TT OOP is it ok to play for stacks -reraise/push or just call and fold to another barrell? I'm new to the table and don't have any reads.

3betting doesn't accomplish anything since you just force him to fold his bluffs.
If you want to continue you should definitely just call the raise.

Originally posted by eszibit
:cAgainst a regular is it ok to play KK on T83ss/4/Js bet/fold bet/fold bet/fold?

This really depends on the particular opponent, stacksizes and positions.
It's hard (not to say impossible) to make a general statement.

Originally posted by eszibit
:sIf I have KK overpair and a passive fish check raises turn should I go allin or just fold and try to only value bet him (let's say the board is T45r/7)

Again, making general statements about situations is pretty hard and will lead to a lot of suboptimal plays.
However, if a passive fish c/calls the flop and c/raises the turn it's usually a sign of strength, so my plan might very well be to bet/fold turn and river since I expect him to raise only better hands but call a lot of worse.

Originally posted by eszibit
Should i play for stacks with 2 pair on AKT and i have KT against a regular? Is it just a cooler if he has QJ ,AK etc?

I'm pretty unlikely to be all in on such a flop with bottom 2pair because in most scenarios most ranges have hit the board so bluffingranges are small.
If a reg check/raises I would virtually never 3bet.
But again it depends on the opponent etc.

Originally posted by eszibit
if the fish plays something like 50/20/3/30 and i have QQ on J66 and he check raises flop or turn is that standard to go broke? lately i'm only running into trips

Another spot where I usually not go broke because I don't 3bet the flop in the first place - it simply doesn't accomplish much to 3bet there.

Originally posted by eszibit
3-way pot if i hit bottom set on an extremely dry board on playing with weak-tight regulars on K28r and there is a bunch of action from them can i fold it for 100BB ,what about 200BB ?

That would be again one of those spots where imo you can't make a general statement.
Just depends way too much on opponents, positions, etc.

Originally posted by eszibit
If i get a cold caller when i 3 bet with AA and c.bet on KQT and he raises can i fold there? that hits his range very good for cold call (talking about regulars )

Nope.

Board: Ks Qh Td
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 41.186% 40.83% 00.35% 58212 502.50 { AA }
Hand 1: 58.814% 58.46% 00.35% 83343 502.50 { KK-TT, KQs, KQo }

Originally posted by eszibit
i have a very low ATS because players defend their blindes extremelly agressive,should i cold call more often if i raise from button and he reraises and I have 77,88,AJ,AT,A9,KQ,JK,KT,QT

This is a very complex theme, I can't really answer it comprehensively, but in a nutshell you can call some hands that dominate his 3bettingrange (e.g. AJ) and
as a rule of thumb you can call speculative hands only if you either are 120BB+ deep with him or have some special reads how to exploit him massively postflop.
But afaik there are articles about this and I guess there might also be some videos.

Originally posted by eszibit
AK vs fish is bet/bet/allin on Ahigh dry board? if he raises with 2 pair and we get it in it's just a cooler?

As long as he calls down I usually bet/bet/bet because he's calling a ton of worse Ax.
Once he starts raising we're back to: it depends .
So again it's impossible to make general statements in this case.

Originally posted by eszibit
What do massive overbets ussualy mean coming from fish? I ran once into AQ on KK5/A (pot was 24$ and he donked shoved 190BB 380$-btw,is this a cooler if he has KQ,KJ,AK,55 and i have KT ?) and once into nuts .

Again impossible to say something about it because it really depends on the particular opponent.
But in general I made the experience that big bets mean strength more often than weakness.

------
Overall I'd say some of the first questions might indicate you're being too aggressive in some spots because it looks like you're just shipping it in sometimes when calling would have more value due to the fact that it would keep the opponents bluffingrange alive.


eszibit Topic starter
eszibit
Joined: 10.12.2007

Thanks for all the answers ,i can see you put a lot of work into it :)
I was thinking that a lot of "it depends" would be the answers but i was hoping there is something i missed or some simpler answers :f_biggrin: .Seems like everytime i don't reraise he hits some weird outs on the turn or on the river and when i do reraise he either has nothing or he has the nuts.
Guess i just have to call more often and get in more marginal spots but +ev
Thanks again !


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