[Closed] nl 100 - AQ oop tp vs 3 barrels

Other than 3betting pre, is there any way to lose less in this hand but still find out that we are behind?

-> hmmm difficult.

Each line has his advantages and downsides.

You could think about donking pot/fold.
Or ch/raise/fold.
But then you turn your made hand into a bluff both times.

After thinking I like ch/r because he bets on flop 1/2pot into 2 players.
If such a player shoves or even calls you don't have to invest any more money as your hand is beat 99% of the time.

Best regards,
Anin

check/raise and give up is called "raise for info".
but i like to check/raise and bet bet for value vs bluff catch (Ax)

(Imo vilain never 3bet flop for value)

As played J is a bad card for you, horrible bluff spot for him because of you fold only ATs/AQ now. I fold...

I like a sqz pf, it can get really ugly post flop mulitway.
Other then that, I think it's fine. His value range has you crashed and really what NL100 TAG takes this line with out a monster?

Originally posted by maya1984
I like a sqz pf, it can get really ugly post flop mulitway.

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I would definitely squeeze, there's basically no scenario in which I'd just call preflop.
If you're up against 2 regs there's no point in overcalling and when there's a fish involved you can 3bet for value.
If you think the openraisers range is too tight to make a squeeze +EV you're dominated anyway.

On the flop it's close between all options, and all are poosible: leading out at well as c/c and c/r.
Without any reads and history I'd probably go for c/c because you can't expect to get called by many worse hands if you c/r and a lead also looks strong.

So the plan is to c/c flop and turn.
Not sure if I like a check on the river, in case he bets you have a hard time and probably have to c/f. But having said that it's also very hard for him to call with a worse hand, there are basically AT and A9, maybe A6 and worse if you make it small.
So it's close, a c/f should be fine because he's probably not bluffing too often - after all you called two bets on a dry A high board, he has to give you some credit.

If you're up against 2 regs there's no point in overcalling and when there's a fish involved you can 3bet for value.

just to clarify this point, is that because they are not generally bad enough to pay us off with dominated Aces?

Originally posted by Tim64

If you're up against 2 regs there's no point in overcalling and when there's a fish involved you can 3bet for value.

just to clarify this point, is that because they are not generally bad enough to pay us off with dominated Aces?

well yeah it's gonna be hard extracting value oop but what's even worse that they can use their positional advantage to bluff you from the best hand quite often.

Originally posted by maya1984

Originally posted by Tim64

If you're up against 2 regs there's no point in overcalling and when there's a fish involved you can 3bet for value.

just to clarify this point, is that because they are not generally bad enough to pay us off with dominated Aces?

well yeah it's gonna be hard extracting value oop but what's even worse that they can use their positional advantage to bluff you from the best hand quite often.

Exactly.
It's not because they don't pay you with dominated aces, but because you generally don't win OOP against regs, even against fishes it's very hard to play OOP.

Originally posted by Bierbaer

Originally posted by maya1984

Originally posted by Tim64

If you're up against 2 regs there's no point in overcalling and when there's a fish involved you can 3bet for value.

just to clarify this point, is that because they are not generally bad enough to pay us off with dominated Aces?

well yeah it's gonna be hard extracting value oop but what's even worse that they can use their positional advantage to bluff you from the best hand quite often.

Exactly.
It's not because they don't pay you with dominated aces, but because you generally don't win OOP against regs, even against fishes it's very hard to play OOP.

+1 indeed, from the first line in this hand I was so surprised that you didn´t 3-bet pre Calling OOP means you are OOP, have no information and no idea what they have. You can´t extract money. Whereas if you 3-bet pre you can get it down with C-bet even if you don´t hit. You don´t need the nuts to win the pots in NLHE and with AQ you will almost never have the nuts, even if it is good hand - just 3bet pre all the day long.

^^
Good advice, again my friend

Originally posted by Tim64
^^
Good advice, again my friend

I enjoy discussing your hands as well

id rather donk bet F + T and most likely river, (not J though since AJ now beats us)

as played id call Turn and fold river also

id rather donk bet F + T and most likely river, (not J though since AJ now beats us)

Definitely worth considering.

Pros: we might get AQ to fold (unlikely, but possible); we obtain a similar idea of villain's hand strength as by calling but some worse hands than ours might fold which may otherwise win the pot on the river with aggression. Actually, is that right? Are there any hands that 3 barrel Axx bd which we are ahead of?

Cons: less effective vs bluffy/aggressive opponent.

Coach, thoughts?

Originally posted by Tim64

id rather donk bet F + T and most likely river, (not J though since AJ now beats us)

Definitely worth considering.

Pros: we obtain a similar idea of villain's hand strength as by calling but some worse hands than ours might fold which may otherwise win the pot on the river with aggression. Actually, is that right? Are there any hands that 3 barrel Axx bd which we are ahead of?

Cons: less effective vs bluffy/aggressive opponent.
we might get AQ to fold (unlikely, but possible);
Coach, thoughts?

The fact that he might fold AQ will make it very likely we get virtually all worse hands to fold.
Since there are no draws I rather keep them im the hand and check the flop to be able to get any value.
Also since leading out makes them fold that much it means we obv have to c/f the turn: Otherwise we're bluffing against a range of TPTK+, obv not a good idea if we're not very sure villain can fold big hands like 2pair on this board (and I highly doubt he folds 2pair at any point).