Khiiniau struggling with micro PLO

But you were happy to see the river at least for a second or two.

Cheers! Can drink one coke My best result in GGpoker daily 100k flipout. 4*ITM from 47 flipouts, not too bad. Firts table, I was 4th biggest with 17h, biggest had 22k. Got KK, A on flop but nobody had it. Chipleader was 2nd and collected small monies

Something strange happened just when I was playing RnC PLO2 with Olybet (GGpoker). Or maybe I'm just loosing my mind? I raised at SB and BB shove as seen from screenshot from Pokercraft. I was waiting to click call but I even didn't see action of UTG and MP but was jumped to next table. I'm very sure I didn't click fold or timed out because I was just moved to next table without clicking New Hand and I didn't see further actions on table as usually if folded. From Pokercraft I see that UTG and MP folded before my turn.

Four possible scenarios:

- You have accidentally clicked fold button
- Your network was down/slow for a while
- Site's network for your part was down/slow for a while
- Bug in software

For network, if it goes down, the data doesn't transfer for opponents actions, so it looks like they are thinking. And when it catches up, it picks from the point that is actually going on. Sometimes it's hard to notice, as on your screen it looks like opponent is thinking while in reality they have made the action and you timed out. Very rarely site admits that they have had a problem in network.

Last option is that there is a bug in software, but the odds for that is the lowest by far. I have played quite many hands on R&C PLO and can't remember ever having that issue. Network issues I have had a lot, sometimes on my part but quite often on the site's part. Like when I was streaming, the stream didn't lose any connection (no dropped frames) but there was connection issues on the tables. Every time I sent the video proof (from the stream) to the sites (not just GG), the answer was "it's on your end, not ours".

Some network problem is the the most probable reason. They are quite common in place where I'm now. I have seen many times when some player wrote to chat when timed out : WTF? I wanted to call.

GGpoker 12 Days of Resolution all 12 missions done so I will be in 400k flipout tomorrow 11:00 PST. My stack is one of smallest because all missions done on lowest level PLo and S&G, 46192 chips. Anybody seen what are prize pools for flipouts? Same 25% ITM like daily flipouts?

Originally posted by Kyyberi
My default is to 3bet all AAxx at 100bb stacks at low stakes. That is 2,5% already. When you add double suited KK, single suited good AKKx, and some ds higher rundowns, you should have pretty good 3bet range

Thanks Kyyberi. I copied this to my blog to fix it to my spinal cord. Looks like my 3bet range has been alredy quite OK but have to wider it at least againts high VPIP/PFR players who open 60% with 2bb because they play only to collect GG leaderboard points. And probally could add also 2 pair ds hand like QQJJ and JJTT ?

Probably my VPIP/PFR about 14/10 is too low and have met lot of 3bets with shitty hands from good players. Let's see if widening opening and calling range provides to some improvement in cashflow.

Lots of regs at lower stakes 3bet shitty hands. Doesn't mean you should.

Typical regular in GGpoker micro RnC PLO. VPIP and PFR OK but 3bet 26% He is almost always in top10 in leaderboard. Probably 3betting a lot against other leaderboard players who open with 2bb and his postflop play is OK.

I have also widened my 3bet and calling range against those 2bb openers but not so much.

You get more points for raising. If it's PLO2 or PLO5, I wouldn't think he has that good plan to attack minopens with good 3betting range. Probably he knows that raising gives more points, and decides to do it just for that. Some regs do a lot of minbetting postflop to get points. Couple of years ago I calculated in stream that making those 1bb bets a lot doesn't even generate +EV, as they lose more than they win at leaderboard.

Also, that GG hud is not always on point. I have no idea how it calculates, is it all hands on sample or X latest, but especially 3bet stat isn't always accurate. I have had situations where same player has different 3bet stat on 2 tables at the same time, and sample size was over 1K hands. Also with few thousand hands sample the 3bet stat was very different in two sessions for opponent.

Leaderboard leaders who play only for points start always with 20bb stack, open with 2bb, cbet always 1bb all the way even if hitted something and bet big only on river if have nuts. If they are 3betted on flop, they call and minimet again 1bb and fold if raised. And they do it in 4-8 tables same time, leave table if reach close to 100bb and open new.

That guy clearly plays for money, starts with full stack, opens with pot and doesn't make minibets on postflop, may stay in game long time with very deep stack. 2-3 players on leaderboard are like him, others are 20bb starters.

I have tried to 4 table RnC or Zoom but I can keep solid play only with 2.

After some months on bronze level got silver status again because I started to play again in Pokerstars PLO5 and PLO2 Zoom to get enough points for that. Playing in Pokestars is so different compared to GGpoker. PLO2 Z has lot of regulars but only few of they are good, lot of 3bets preflops and calldowns with trips or naked overpair. Normal PLO5 is a real madhouse. 90% of flops are MW, any fd on any flop is donk, 3bet or shove. Hero has to make lot of cold calls to see flop with good hands. One example (this was already in hand of day thread, Turn AI):

PS client is so ancient compared to GG, player pool is much smaller in micro PLO, both normal and fast. And reward program is so shitty and becomes even worse after Jan 22. Total playing experience in GG is so much better tha PS.
I almost stopped playing after long badrun that started in mid Nov. I was forced to go down to play PLO2 when had only 40 bins for it. Thanks to lucky wins from flipouts got almost 30 bins for PLO5.

15 Jan I opted free Killer Whale rank with 50% from fishpoints and started new followup from 15 Jan 0:00 PST. First decided to try PLO5 RnC but didn’t feel comfortable and after loosing 2 bins went back to PLO2 RnC. I try play less and look more videos and PLO hand discussions and read other PLO players blogs.
First 3 full days, 4303 hands RnC PLO2. Pokercraft shows that I have lost only 46c so I have not played very bad. But Pokercraft don’t calculate rake $4,33 and 3c “jackpot fee” for each over 30bb win. HM3 shows total winnings -$7,17 what is same that has gone from my bankroll in Olybet.

Main points for improvement:
- folding opened hand on preflop after 3bet if not strong enough liked naked rb KKxx to continue against solid AA-oriented player
- 3betting or not with naked AA if it’s coming MW hand with solid players
- forget 50% “don’t know what to do” cbet on flop.
- flop cbet only if hand may have enough playability if called on turn
- value betting on river with correct size
- and million others

Aaaargh:f_cry: As always when just wrote something postive bad karma strikes. 3 short sessions, total 442 hands RnC with -3,5 bins. 1 big mistake, 1 small and 2 suckouts: Flop AI, villain has some crappy hand and got runner runner, turn 97,5 and ofcourse one outer on river. Another turn AI with same s8 50/50 and river found his one outer. Tilted and stopped playing immediately. Now have to take my punishment for tilting and look some episodes of Finnish soapy series.

I didn't take my punishment and looked instead of soapies 2 episodes of Aallonmurtaja (Breakwater) that is a good Finnish criminal serial. Tilted again with AAxx and pushed them all-in in 2 tables same time. In first maniac makes limp-raise but didn't shove after my 4bet. Flop was terrible for me but maniac donked AI and I called. Cashed out 95% on turn.

GG Poker - $0.02 PL Hi FAST (6 max) - Omaha Hi - 6 players
Hand converted by Holdem Manager 3

Hero (BTN): $2.03 (101.5 bb)
SB: $2.57 (128.5 bb)
BB: $2.00 (100 bb)
UTG: $2.10 (105 bb)
MP: $2.13 (106.5 bb)
CO: $2.00 (100 bb)

SB posts $0.01, BB posts $0.02

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.03) Hero has Q♥: A♦: J♣: A♣:
UTG calls $0.02, 2 folds, Hero raises to $0.09, 2 folds, UTG raises to $0.30, Hero raises to $0.93, UTG calls $0.63

Flop: ($1.89, 2 players) 2♦: 8♥: Q♦:
UTG bets $1.17 and is all-in, Hero calls $1.10 and is all-in

Turn: ($4.09, 2 players) 7♦:

River: ($4.09, 2 players) 3♣:

Results: $4.09 pot ($0.06 rake)
Final Board: 2♦: 8♥: Q♦: 7♦: 3♣:

UTG shows K♣: K♥: A♥: 6♠:: (One Pair, Kings)
(Pre 26%, Flop 15%, Turn 5%)

Hero shows Q♥: A♦: J♣: A♣:: (One Pair, Aces)
(Pre 74%, Flop 85%, Turn 95%)

Hero wins $4.00

In another table I went AI on flop that was terrible against PFR opener who is one on few good leaderboard regulars but I have seen his flop AIs with mariginal hand and also pure bluffs. But I had nut fd and nut bdfd + overpair+small pair. Cashed out 93% at turn. Left tables after only 19 hands with 2 bins up.

GG Poker - $0.02 PL Hi FAST (6 max) - Omaha Hi - 6 players
Hand converted by Holdem Manager 3

BTN: $2.19 (109.5 bb)
Hero (SB): $2.11 (105.5 bb)
BB: $2.42 (121 bb)
UTG: $5.33 (266.5 bb)
MP: $1.93 (96.5 bb)
CO: $1.95 (97.5 bb)

Hero posts SB $0.01, BB posts $0.02

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.03) Hero has A♦: 6♦: 6♠: A♠:
UTG raises to $0.07, 3 folds, Hero raises to $0.23, fold, UTG calls $0.16

Flop: ($0.48, 2 players) 9♦: T♠: 7♠:
Hero bets $0.36, UTG raises to $1.56, Hero raises to $1.88 and is all-in, UTG calls $0.32

Turn: ($4.24, 2 players) T♦:

River: ($4.24, 2 players) 4♣:

Results: $4.24 pot ($0.06 rake)
Final Board: 9♦: T♠: 7♠: T♦: 4♣:

Hero shows A♦: 6♦: 6♠: A♠:: (Two Pair, Aces and Tens)
(Pre 71%, Flop 66%, Turn 93%)

UTG shows 8♥: 9♣: K♠: Q♠:: (Two Pair, Tens and Nines)
(Pre 29%, Flop 34%, Turn 8%)

Hero wins $4.15

Now I'm really thinking how many times I have folded my AA at flop when should shove?

There is no overplay really on either of those AA hands. In general with SPR 1 or less you can pot almost any flop and make profit in long run.On second one you can also start with check but hand is so strong that its tough to do much wrong with it. 66 is also kind of nice as it does block 86. You unblock KQJ so there are lot of hands villain can give action which are behind.

Well lets post one hand I had today as quiz

What would be your line in this flop on your own games and what is reasoning?

Game #2025539836: Table €50 PL - 0.25/0.50 - Pot Limit Omaha - 17:07:57 2024/01/19
Seated players
Seat 2: Baden-Baden (€48.50)
Seat 3: Iivovi (€182.98)
Seat 5: foogier (€157.50)
Blinds and button
Baden-Baden has the button
Iivovi posts small blind €0.25
foogier posts big blind €0.50
Hole cards
Dealt to Iivovi J♠:A♥:9♥:A♦:
Preflop
Baden-Baden raises €1.75 to €1.75
Iivovi raises €5.50 to €5.75
foogier folds
Baden-Baden calls €4
Flop J♣:T♦:2♥: (12€)
Iivovi?

Originally posted by ghaleon
Well lets post one hand I had today as quiz

What would be your line in this flop on your own games and what is reasoning?

Iivovi?

Nice quiz for analyzing and learning:f_thumbsup:

When 2-tablig RnC there is no time to make deep analysis and GGpoker tends to give similar hands with different suites and one different card in both tables and flops often look similar what provides to difficult multitasking for brains. Maybe for learning purposes I should play only one table RnC to have more time for decicions. Normal PLO 2 and 5 are madhouses in both, GG and PS where can learn only bad habbits.

When playing I would take into account that BU may open at least 40-60% and call blinds 3bet with almost anything. We have over pair, top pair, nut bdfd and rr for T-A. If have time I try to look GGpoker generic HUDs' ATS and PFR%, in PS I see those directly in my HM3 HUD. We are OOP so we have to cbet 75% to get information about villains hand, check is too weak and villain should fold at least 50% of his hands. If BU is OK player he will raise JJxx, TTxx, 22xx, JTxx (many players just call with those thinking SB has naked KK or AA and if turn is blank they shove if we continue cbetting), any wraps and oesd with KQ will 3bet and I would fold. Too weak? If villain just calls plan for turn is check-fold if possible oesd fulfills and cbet 75% if blank, or turn pairs the board and fold if BU shove. Too weak again?

When analyzing whitout pressure I can see other things also on flop. Blockers is one thing that I don't have usually enough time to think when playing. We have 3 blockers against KQxx and KQ are our rr-outs. Whitout thoose blockers if villain has KQ he has 8 outs and about 40%, with my blockers only 5 outs and about 25% against my over pair and bd outs.

Next card if you cbetted and BU just called?

I made a video about playing AAxx after 3betting. It's a bit old, did it 4 years ago. Where the time goes? But here it is, might clarify the situation.

For low SPR spots like SPR 3-4 I would use half pot and pot cbet sizings on flop like this which is non paired, non monotone and doesn't make straight. Idea of these sizings is basically to split our range:

Full pot: weighted toward mediocre strength hands that are mainly good enough to stack off but lack good playability. Basically aim to make game two street one where we have option to go allin on turn. When we decide to pot we are not supposed to fold that often anymore if facing raise.

Half pot: More polarized range that has strong hands that allow better three street playability or weaker ones with some relevant blockers that are then folding versus raise.

Mediocre strength is also sort of relative term as let's say 55AA on AJ8ss without fd or bdfd can actually be viewed as one.

Anyway when thinking of our hand we can say it's made hand strength is not that high. Only overpair with some support. But as you pointed out we have lot of blockers to opponent continuation range and we do block some outs in case villain has straight draw or some pair+draw combo. Plus AA has certain value in itself as we can sometimes counterfeit opponent two pair with board pairing runouts.

Even with lot of blockers it's not like we are happy to induce action by betting small. So this would be prime example of good potting hand. In case opponent shoves we are going to stack off. Doesn't mean we are thrilled about that scenario but we only have 30€ to call for pot of almost 100€ so pot odds are good. So aim of potting is to not allow opponent to realize his equity and create option to shove on good turns.

This is simplification obviously but does create some thoughts I hope.

PS: Villain folded to my pot bet in game. But in general we can be happy to continue aggression on pairing and blank turns as people very often raise versus pot bet with two pair or sets. In theory sets should actually call fair amount of time in BU shoes to protect flop call range but it's not necessarily mistake to shove those. Reason being that in real life lot of players don't have pot-folding range or they do it very rarely.

Also as general rule AA should not really pot-fold almost ever. If it's actually too weak to stack off versus raise in low SPR spot it was likely mistake to pot in first place.

Yeah, pot-folding is often the worst play in those SPR 3,5 (normal 100bb game) situations. We need just above 30% equity to call. Unless opponents range is strictly 2 pairs or better, we usually have that equity versus his range.