Making a living with STT SNGs

Watch this video and understand why we as musicians are different!

Another one you may appreciate, given this blog is a lot about making a living as a player, and probably the most 'professional' blog we have:

http://www.pokerstrategy.com/news/world-of-poker/88478/

Originally posted by BarryCarter
Another one you may appreciate, given this blog is a lot about making a living as a player, and probably the most 'professional' blog we have:

http://www.pokerstrategy.com/news/world-of-poker/88478//blockquote >

Thanks Barry appreciate you sharing it here!
I will definitely write a response to it in the comments section. Feel that these kinds of articles are likely to crush dreams of anybody looking to become poker professional - don't really support that approach and mindset to be honest

72 Days Study Challenge

Day 44

- Studied 1 hour today
- Checked most of my hand history on 30s for leaks, saw some spots where I was not adjusting accordingly
- Also saw that I am facing tons of setups + combination of bad plays by opposition so that made me very happy about my game and progress even tough I am positive I can do much better with my improvement!
- Tomorrow plan to finish with hand history for December and then resume 3rd advanced edge

Worked out 1st thing in the morning!
Spent time with family!
Coached 2 sessions!
Watched Partizan game!
Went for coffee with best friend after + worked on my HUD additions !
Got back home and grinded 120 games!

So I would give myself for productivity 7 out of 10 today!

The way things are looking since this challenge started:

- 52/72 study hours completed
- 2823/6000 games completed
- 65/100 coaching sessions completed
- 24 out of 30 CrossFit trainings completed
- 20 out of 10 videos for automated coaching/staking system completed
Additional work with fellow reg 8 and a half hours
Grinded 2nd format 8 hours

Here is the plan for tomorrow:
- Wake up 8am and work out 1st thing
- Eat healthy breakfast and work on the game (HH review)
- If student confirms, coach 10-11am 1 session if not continue with working on the game
- Go for coffee with best friend and work on the 3rd advanced edge
- Pick up healthy meals for lunch and dinner on the way back
- If student confirms coach another session 4-5pm
- Lunch + 1st session of 60 games
- Dinner + 2nd session of 60 games
- Update blog/challenge and reflect on mission, vision and goals set + align them all
* If all gets done before midnight, spend time scripting new 5 videos for recording them on the abroad trip!*

Originally posted by IvicaIliev77
- Checked most of my hand history on 30s for leaks, saw some spots where I was not adjusting accordingly

When you talk about adjusting here - is it versus unknown/recreational with behaviour or stats outside the "normal" ranges, or do you mean versus a reg with which you have solid stats?
When and how do you make the majority of your adjustments?

• In game or post-game after review?
• Based on play observed or based on stats?
• Targeted versus a specific opponent or opponents grouped by similar stats/styles?
• If targeting a specific player - do you use notes to alert you to adjustments?

I found the tables really dead tonight at the $7's - how did you find them at your stakes?

Originally posted by Ramble

Originally posted by IvicaIliev77
- Checked most of my hand history on 30s for leaks, saw some spots where I was not adjusting accordingly

When you talk about adjusting here - is it versus unknown/recreational with behaviour or stats outside the "normal" ranges, or do you mean versus a reg with which you have solid stats?
When and how do you make the majority of your adjustments?

• In game or post-game after review?
• Based on play observed or based on stats?
• Targeted versus a specific opponent or opponents grouped by similar stats/styles?
• If targeting a specific player - do you use notes to alert you to adjustments?

I found the tables really dead tonight at the $7's - how did you find them at your stakes?

Lots of areas and ways that I approach it. Here are the explanations:

Versus unknown I use color coding once I see something that sticks out. It helps me for table selecting and what to expect from that player. Once the unknown player gets more hands and sample, I would look into specific area where I can exploit him.
Versus regs is always very specific because they play tons of games , 30s as level are higher level of play compared to 15s, regs have less leaks but are still exploitable. So what I do in their case is during the game I would mark hands where they did something specific but also do separate review. For example once I am done with 3rd advanced edge study, I plan to do reg review and take super specific things and notes for exploiting each of them. Right now I have very good way vs some, vs some decent or rough idea where they are leaking. I want to obviously have 100% certainty for each one of them for each area. This kind of approach will eventually lead to even higher ROI in these games.

As far as my adjustment goes, I do it both in game and after reviews. Examples, if I saw in game lighter calling I would adjust accordingly, if I saw in review some bad plays I would make a note of it and adjust to it accordingly. Also it helps that my memory recall is pretty strong, I live and breath poker all day long. Talking hands and spots with my brother and best friend daily also makes that memory recalling even stronger.

Generally versus recreational or unknown players it doesn't take long to adjust if at all. It is all about adjusting to regs who keep entering every game, failing to table select and grind to chase some silly milestones sacrificing ROI in the meanwhile. That is where you have to pay attention the most cause you will face these guys in most of the games so it makes sense to study them the most.

I have on 30s couple of regs that do that, on 15s there is even more of them doing them. Eventually only few out of 30+ regs will have decent or stronger ROI, rest will have BE or up to 2% at best, playing with 4 other regs of some sort per game.

I also spend time away from tables checking how other regs are doing. For example last night I scooped guys from 30s that I play daily since October 1st when Spins were introduced. What I found is that couple of guys that had 3-4% pre RB ROI now are BE or slightly loosing on 30s! Why ? Variance - perhaps. Huge reg infestation - absolutely!
So I do these things to compare myself, how I am currently doing, where do I rate myself among all the other regs I battle with daily and to also determine if my expectations are set correctly.
I am still very positive that I will be one of the few regs who will actually have winning ROI on 30s in 2015. With my work rate, studying analyzing figuring out edges and leaks + fixing my own in the process, I don't see how I will not get that positive ROI on 30s. Once that happens (right now at BE at around 5k games!!!) it will be worth to stay on Stars and keep multitabling going for 50k+ a year profit - which no other network offers for 6 max SNGs.

As far as your traffic question goes, I 18 table and table select so it takes me to play 2x60 games close to 6 hours. Before I could do 150 games in 6 hours. Obviously things have changed, there is far more regs now compared to recreational players and those regs are careless just entering all the games blindly. Not all of them but significant number of them doesn't care and just chase for grind. I was one of those regs last year on 15s, this year since May or so I am using Sharkystrator and I am not worried at all about the games I sit in at all!

Hope that makes sense and I wouldn't worry if I was you about traffic on 7s or 15s. 30s is where it becomes harder to get 100 games a day with table selecting !

@Megalodan1988

Thanks for sharing your story and situation on 9 max. I assumed things were no different there as well. It is simply natural order, regs dropping limits trying to play weaker regs etc.

I support your decision about not accepting new students in 2015. I have currently 9 students and will really consider only special candidates (that can grind + study and treat poker as a job not as a hobby) for 2015. I still think that on 7s you can achieve 5% ROI pre RB. That is at least the case with most of my students that are playing them this year on sample of 10k+ games each.
What might happen in 2015 is some regs from 15s might drop down or mix more 7s with 15s but don't forget that the same thing can happen with 3.50$ regs mixing 7s.
The most important thing in order to keep strong pre RB ROI is table selecting and continuing to work on the game (fix leaks and find ones from your opponents to exploit).

I will invest 600 hours in 2015 in another format for which if it pays out the investment of time and money, I can consider mixing with SNGs or even switching.

I want you to know that I haven't given up on SNGs. Despite the hard situation, I will prove that 40k+ post RB a year is possible on 15s and 30s. With positive ROI on 30s I will most likely go even more then 40k but lets wait 31st of December 2015 for graphs

All the best to you, your students and GL with all the changes in your format !

P.S. Amaya is making a lot of semi pro or pro players consider/doubt if poker is still profession for them. We shall see if that is good or bad thing in the future!

72 Days Study Challenge

Day 45

- Studied 1 hour
- Worked on 3rd advanced edge
- Noticed some new things in it, will continue working and finish it in next 3-4 hours tops (*shouldn't take long to memorize it either)

Worked out 1st thing in the morning!
Hanged out with best friend for coffee + to study 1 hour
Grinded 127 games in 2 grind sessions
Ate healthy
Talked with my students + scheduled sessions
Watched videos on productivity, mindset, goals, scientific approaches, sociology and psychology etc
Watched movie with brother and best friend

Would give myself 6 out of 10 for productivity today!

The way things are looking since this challenge started:

- 53/72 study hours completed
- 2950/6000 games completed
- 65/100 coaching sessions completed
- 25 out of 30 CrossFit trainings completed
- 20 out of 10 videos for automated coaching/staking system completed
Additional work with fellow reg 8 and a half hours
Grinded 2nd format 8 hours

Tomorrow I will be out of town with brother, best friend and Curly for a whole weekend! Will however have time until 6pm to do some things so here is the plan for tomorrow:

- Wake up 9am and work out 1st thing
- Eat healthy breakfast
- Coach 1 session 10-11am
- Hang with best friend for coffee + study 3rd advanced edge 1 hour
- Pick up healthy meals and eat lunch
- Pack things for the trip (especially for swimming!)
- Prepare all the things for laptop (headset for sessions, HHs for review, power point for video scripting)
- Grind 1 session of 50-60 games if there will be traffic between 2-4,5pm for such

Updates for following 3 days might not be frequent since I will be on the trip but I will try my best to continue with daily challenge update regardless. Focus will be to mainly relax (hang, have a good time, hit some swimming pool to recharge and relax, go for some sauna etc) but also to play some live poker just for fun! I will be bringing laptop for multiple purposes and definitely intend to keep up with my habit of working on the game daily 1 hour at least + to squeeze some coaching sessions in and script some videos. I am not sure if I will grind some games from there since I don't have ideal setup on laptop for such a thing. Perhaps some table selecting on 60$? Also wouldn't mind hitting some gym as part of the hotel, to do some squats with weights or dead lifting for my CrossFit. Should be tons of fun!

Enjoy remaining of your week both on and off the tables!

I wonder why you're still torturing yourself by (increasingly tough) pokerz when you could earn decent money ($30+/hour) by full-time guitar coaching on Skype... or am I wrong?

I mean, you won't find enough clients in an instant, but you could be seeking them gradually while playing less and less poker as they come.

Oh, I can guess why. As a musician, you're predisposed to success in many aspects of poker gameplay. that is as complex as playing an instrument.

I for one totally fail at what gamers call 'the micro' - I often find myself paralysed for a couple of seconds, trying to recall which of the 8 used mouse buttons does the needed action, stupor stretches from my brain along the entire arm, and then I end up clicking on the picture of the needed button at the table anyway.

I think I've had this muscular coordination impairment since I was born, and though I've never exercised enough - initially for other health reasons - I find it a serious handicap in comparison with healthy online players.

Also, maybe I just can't think as fast as others do (which is compensated by having better thoughts in the end).

Originally posted by tonypmm
I wonder why you're still torturing yourself by (increasingly tough) pokerz when you could earn decent money ($30+/hour) by full-time guitar coaching on Skype... or am I wrong?

I mean, you won't find enough clients in an instant, but you could be seeking them gradually while playing less and less poker as they come.

I don't consider what I do now torture, I enjoy doing all the things related to poker which is why I have so much energy to keep doing it daily. I enjoy poker as much as I enjoy music. I never considered myself talented for just one thing in the life. I believe that whatever I take and approach it seriously enough that I can get to world class level.

To remind you, I started poker because it was very difficult to maintain living in Serbia playing Jazz music or teaching. I went to cruise ship for one contract and when I got back I was left with 300-400$ per month with students from 1500$ that I used to have.
I have been teaching music long enough to understand mindset of most of the students. Teaching is not steady gig!!! You can't rely on say 20 clients that you teach that they will stick with you for any specific time. In USA I taught at Berklee, another private school (both part time) + taught private lessons. My rate was 50$ per lesson home , 50$ per hour at Berklee and in other private school was close to 40$ per hour (37$). During that time I had multiple source of income, pulling in students from all 3 areas and getting to 3k+ a month easily.
I am not in USA anymore, I am in Serbia for very good reasons, family and our situation being the top priority for me.
I switched to poker because compared to music it actually has constant traffic and way to make a living 24/7. This is what drawn me to poker in the 1st place when it comes to making money. Compared to music where students can come and leave, in poker I can get down 3k,4k,5k, 10k games a month and long term have super positive cash flow. In music I already reach super high hourly, got to do what I dreamed of doing which was to graduate and teach at Berklee, got amazing stories behind me in that area but also the sealing for improvement there is super limited. I could have moved to LA to increase my hourly and teach actors with executives for some sick $

To sum it all up
I enjoy very much poker and don't consider it torture of any sort. If I did I would quit it within 1 month because that is not the way I operate with my brain, emotions and will to do something.
To do music in Serbia, I would have to take easy way out which is playing folk music and doing weddings. I don't enjoy folk music so I choose not to torture myself and be treated like a monkey doing something I love doing.
Poker on the other hand already brings me money that I made while I was teaching music in USA. I have gone from total fish 2 and a half years ago to one of the best regs on 15s and somebody who guys from 30s don't enjoy playing in their games. I am also aware that I can accomplish much more then what I am doing currently. This is why I am very motivated and goal driven, this is what gives me tons of energy and will to keep going to become master in field of poker just like I did in music. That goal for me would be to make 100k a year or 10k a month. I have had months with 5k post RB profit in my poker career so far. Next step would be 7-8k and then 10k. To accomplish this I need to get my knowledge, bankroll and experience to the point that I can comfortably beat 30s,60s,100s and up + play super steady volume. I need to get to the level where even having 4 regs per game is not a huge deal, where I will know in every single moment how to adjust,readjust,level and everything that goes with it. I am also going for another coaching and staking deal in 2015 (just like I took 1 month coaching and staking in HU hypers this year) in order to improve myself even more as poker player. For me it is all about constant evolving, if I decide to stop with improving, 2-3-5 years from now what I have now will be gone simply because poker and average players also evolve + poker economy is not looking great right now and there is more regs then recreational players in format I aim to master.

Hope that made sense Tony

Update for yesterday and challenge

72 Days Study Challenge

Day 46

- Studied 1 hour
- Worked on 3rd advanced edge
- 1 more hour is needed (plan to invest it today) to complete 3rd advanced edge
- Will then spend additional hours to study/quiz/memory recall it

Worked out 1st thing in the morning
Coached 1 hour
Had coffee with my best friend
Ate healthy
Grinded 38 games (1 short session)
Packed all the stuff
Traveled with brother, best friend and Curly!

Got to the place with them, played some NL200 with 50bbs (just for fun to test the waters), won 90 euros or 45bbs in like 2-3 hours last night.

Would give myself for productivity 7 out of 10!

Things done today
Worked out in the hotel room (push ups) and in the gym (pull ups and shoulders)
Had lovely healthy breakfast
Went for swimming in the pool + jacuzzi ,steam room and chilling on those hydra type chairs

Now preparing to eat some lunch , work on the game 1 hour and coach my brother 1 hour.
Tonight might play NL200 again just for the kicks or simply hang in the hotel, do some laptop grind or video scripting in the hotel chilling.

The way things are looking since this challenge started:

- 54/72 study hours completed
- 2988/6000 games completed
- 66/100 coaching sessions completed
- 27 out of 30 CrossFit trainings completed
- 20 out of 10 videos for automated coaching/staking system completed
Additional work with fellow reg 8 and a half hours
Grinded 2nd format 8 hours

I will hopefully find time to update tomorrow about what happened remaining of the day and then some more!

Enjoy your weekend on and off the tables!!!

Originally posted by IvicaIliev77
I don't consider what I do now torture, I enjoy doing all the things related to poker which is why I have so much energy to keep doing it daily. I enjoy poker as much as I enjoy music.

Thanks for the lengthy explanation, I'm glad that you like what you're doing!

I wouldn't give online poker more than 1 extra year of life as a profitable business, but I'm a big pessimist in general; maybe your estimate of 3-5 years is more accurate.

Anyway, you have a valid point that there's still an opportunity to earn bigger money in poker right now than elsewhere, and so it shouldn't be missed by people like you who do crush; the investment of learning effort will be not for the long term, rather, for the medium term, but the game is still worth the candle.

Originally posted by tonypmm

Originally posted by IvicaIliev77
I don't consider what I do now torture, I enjoy doing all the things related to poker which is why I have so much energy to keep doing it daily. I enjoy poker as much as I enjoy music.

Thanks for the lengthy explanation, I'm glad that you like what you're doing!

I wouldn't give online poker more than 1 extra year of life as a profitable business, but I'm a big pessimist in general; maybe your estimate of 3-5 years is more accurate.

Anyway, you have a valid point that there's still an opportunity to earn bigger money in poker right now than elsewhere, and so it shouldn't be missed by people like you who do crush; the investment of learning effort will be not for the long term, rather, for the medium term, but the game is still worth the candle.

I am very curious to hear why you think that online poker will not be profitable profession in 3 to 5 years?

The way I see it is that more options will just open and regs will have to adapt or quit.
So worse case scenario is playing all the regs maybe 1 unknown per table right? Isn't this already what happens on 60s+ today but people still play/mix them profitably!
Stars may loose a lot of regs and they may even switch to MTTs , switch sites for better RB deal and that is it. Stars won't loose enough money to care about this situation and also most people who switch to MTTs will fail due to sick variance and low sample of tournaments that they will accomplish to play per year. This is especially true for SNG players who are used to living from this game every month, getting tons of RB and making it with some win rate. MTTs won't allow them to do that and expected earnings in shorter time span is super low which is what will drive them crazy. Once this happens they will do 1 of the 3 things : 1) Quit poker 2) Switch back to Stars and play SNGs again 3) Switch to some other game variant

All the things I mentioned don't scare or affect me simply because I am willing to give my best, put unlimited number of hours in my game. Why? Simply because I see the level of play on 30s, play with people that play all the way to 100s 6 max SNGs. I am confident it will not take me long time to reach a level where I can comfortably play them all.
No need to be afraid, just work harder than ever before and great results will follow!

Update for yesterday and challenge

72 Days Study Challenge

Day 47

- Studied 1 hour 3rd advanced edge
- It is completed and now will dedicate couple of hours to memorizing/quizzing/recalling
- Also took 70% of cliff notes needed to memorize it all faster

Worked out in the hotel room (push ups) and in the gym (pull ups and shoulders) (already included it in challenge yesterday)
Had lovely healthy breakfast
Went for swimming in the pool + jacuzzi ,steam room and chilling on those hydra type chairs
Went for some great lunch
Worked on the game 1 hour in hotel and completed 3rd advanced edge
Played NL200 on 2 occasions, entered with 50bbs(100 euros) both times, made total profit of 118 euros (59bbs)
Played with my best friend some online poker, 5 games total in hotel lobby before actual NL200 (1x60,2x30s and 2 mtts)
Went out to club and had awesome time until 5am !
Set up something nice with one of the waitresses (pending development)

Would give myself for productivity 7 out of 10!

The way things are looking since this challenge started:

- 55/72 study hours completed
- 2993/6000 games completed
- 66/100 coaching sessions completed
- 27 out of 30 CrossFit trainings completed
- 20 out of 10 videos for automated coaching/staking system completed
Additional work with fellow reg 8 and a half hours
Grinded 2nd format 8 hours

Today since I overslept the breakfast and tourney is starting in 2 hours it will be something like this :

- Hit the pool, sauna and all the awesome things now for 1 hour
- Get back to the room and change
- Hit lunch around 3-3:30
- Play MTT
Depending on how I do in the MTT the plan will change. For example if I bust early, I will take laptop and continue studying 3rd advanced edge, complete remaining 30% of cliff notes for memorizing. Also, will try to squeeze in a workout right now in the gym like I did yesterday!

Enjoy the remaining of your week both on and off the tables!

72 Days Study Challenge

Days 48 & 49

- Worked on the game 1 hour (today)
- Memorized and quizzed myself for 3rd advanced edge.
- 40% of the memory recall completed, will take additional hour or two to complete it all

Worked out 2 times, once each day
Ate healthy
Grinded 100 games total all today (75 + 25 games session, 2nd session the worst session in a really long time - was playing very tired and made bad plays while 1st was phenomenal A level play and way below EV with much more 1st than 2nd places, end of the day 300$ below EV and EV in +)
Played live MTT , busted after add on with A9o vs AKs; Before that dominated tournament with 28k stack (starting 5k) after 2 levels as absolute chip leader and then lost a hand for 18k with AA I squeezed UTG calls/defends to my squeeze , 9 high flop we get it in and he shows set of 9s of course
Played NL200, lost a pot turn to river worth 250 euros (150 profit) with AKs on K657 where opponent had 74s but no FDD and hit 4 on the river without pot odds of course Came back in the game and ended in profit 25 euros whole session despite loosing huge pot.
Went to swimming pool sauna and jacuzzi twice yesterday and once today. Was awesome of course and relaxing - just what I wanted and went for really
Connected with couple more girls, got their numbers and next time we can do some partying outside of the work place.

I would give myself 7 out of 10 for productivity in both days!

The way things are looking since this challenge started:

- 56/72 study hours completed
- 3093/6000 games completed
- 66/100 coaching sessions completed
- 29 out of 30 CrossFit trainings completed
- 20 out of 10 videos for automated coaching/staking system completed
Additional work with fellow reg 8 and a half hours
Grinded 2nd format 8 hours

Here is the plan for tomorrow:

- Wake up by 10am latest
- Work out 1st thing in the morning and eat healthy breakfast
- Check Skype for coaching schedule from students, coach 1 session if they respond by 11am if not go with best friend for coffee and work on the game 1 hour
- Get back, pick up healthy lunch and dinner, eat lunch and regenerate before grind
- Grind 1st session 65 games
- Brake 10-15 minutes to regenerate, drink water and eat dinner
- Grind 2nd session another 65 games
- Review mission, vision, goals and align it all with challenge/blog running
Coach brother 1 hour during the day, depending on what happens with other session I have planed with another student

Some interesting things and what awaits me in following 22-23 days!

Grind
Need 2907 games in next 22 days (excluding new years 31st of course!) so that is average of 132-133 games per day. I will be going for 2x65 games sessions or simply adding 3rd session which I will play in the early afternoon of like 20-30 games just to make it easier for evening grind.
It will be very difficult to manage it all but I will give my best and go for those games + to have 31st free whole day!

Working out
Only 1 more work out left which is phenomenal! I aim to finish it tomorrow and get it out of the way. Will keep updating of course how many I will complete by the end of the year.

Coaching
34 sessions remaining in 22 days excluding 31st of December. If not this week, then from next, I will be coaching minimum 2 hours per day 5 days a week which will be 10 hours per week. 3 weeks = 30 hours + 4 sessions this week = should be reachable!

Working on the game
Things are going great, I am ahead of pace which makes me very happy. The most important thing thanks to this challenge is my knowledge is going higher every day, I am super excited to sit down study, improve, fix my leaks and analyze other opponents.
Need 16 hours in 22 days without 31st of December. This should be achievable considering that I actually feel bad when day passes and I don't work on my game (like yesterday for example due to MTT and CG grind)

Everything else
Will not push working with fellow reg nor recording automated coaching videos until the end of the year. Also don't plan to grind 2nd format but rather dedicate all the time to SNGs and challenge that awaits me in 2015!!!

P.S. Played CG NL200 on all of the days while on the trip, was sitting down with 50bbs usually and made in 4 sessions total profit of 232 euros. Could have made even more money but opponent limp called my iso (AKs) and then called on K65 , turn 7r and he shoved I snapped he showed 74s no FD and hit 4 on the river. I lost in that hand about 100 euros of my own stack + there were limps so hand was worth around 200+ euros.
Overall happy how I played CG and adjusted to live tells dynamics and reads. Can definitely see myself grinding CG live when I go to some events in the future

Originally posted by IvicaIliev77
Also don't plan to grind 2nd format but rather dedicate all the time to SNGs and challenge that awaits me in 2015!!!

So now that you aren't going to pursue it - care to reveal?

Originally posted by Ramble

Originally posted by IvicaIliev77
Also don't plan to grind 2nd format but rather dedicate all the time to SNGs and challenge that awaits me in 2015!!!

So now that you aren't going to pursue it - care to reveal?

No way ♦
I will pursue coaching/staking deal for it from January 2015. Might reveal it at that point but to be honest I prefer keeping it a secret, revealing only after I complete the whole deal!

Originally posted by IvicaIliev77

Originally posted by Ramble

Originally posted by IvicaIliev77
Also don't plan to grind 2nd format but rather dedicate all the time to SNGs and challenge that awaits me in 2015!!!

So now that you aren't going to pursue it - care to reveal?

No way ♦
I will pursue coaching/staking deal for it from January 2015. Might reveal it at that point but to be honest I prefer keeping it a secret, revealing only after I complete the whole deal!

Oh I misunderstood - I thought you meant you were giving it up to dedicate 2015 to SnG's... I see now you just meant for this month. I'll stop asking (even though curiosity is killing me inside )

Good luck to you.