Midlife Crisis? What Midlife Crisis?

about playing deep:

I think it is ok if you either already well experienced playing deep or if you have a huge roll or tight BRM. otherwise I think it would be risking a big portion my your roll and out of my comfort zone. SO I reload when I exceed 200bb. most of time though I stay until 200bb though

Originally posted by thazar
about playing deep:

I think it is ok if you either already well experienced playing deep or if you have a huge roll or tight BRM. otherwise I think it would be risking a big portion my your roll and out of my comfort zone. SO I reload when I exceed 200bb. most of time though I stay until 200bb though

MBN!

Originally posted by fruktpuff
I think I talked myself into a horrible play by being somewhat tired and overly paranoid

I opened UTG+1, JB on my direct left 3bet, I tankfolded TT pre

I was sure he was getting back at me for telling him when I squeezed 72s to his UTG raise, dead certain. When in reality he probably didn't realize it was me.

I knew it was you, but I only ever 3bet with AA, so nh wp!

Originally posted by jbpatzer

Originally posted by fruktpuff
I think I talked myself into a horrible play by being somewhat tired and overly paranoid

I opened UTG+1, JB on my direct left 3bet, I tankfolded TT pre

I was sure he was getting back at me for telling him when I squeezed 72s to his UTG raise, dead certain. When in reality he probably didn't realize it was me.

I knew it was you, but I only ever 3bet with AA, so nh wp!

♦ you won't like fruktpuff when he is mad JB

Originally posted by thazar
about playing deep:

I think it is ok if you either already well experienced playing deep or if you have a huge roll or tight BRM. otherwise I think it would be risking a big portion my your roll and out of my comfort zone. SO I reload when I exceed 200bb. most of time though I stay until 200bb though

i lost a 800bb pot with top set yesterday at 200zoom, i think my heart skipped 3 beats.

I've started playing some seven card stud high whilst waiting for number two son to go to bed, and feel like I'm starting to get the hang of it now. It's a bit like FL 5CD, for which the key is knowing how to value pairs, two pairs and trips in various situations imo. I'm starting to realize that NLHE is probably my least favourite game, but on I soldier anyway. I made just over a BI back in a brief post-House, slightly pissed session, even though I got oversetted (a moron CUNTFLAPPED me on the river) and lost KK<AA AI pre.

Since we're all exercised by deep pots atm, here's what happened in the hand I posted. I did fold, and I think it's a good fold, although I was exercised by it at the time. I was more worried by the fact that it was multiway than I was by anything else. I didn't hang around to see the result. I may have tilted a bit if I had. I mean ffs. What is wrong with these people?? However, as Manu pointed out to me, I should probably 3bet bigger when I'm this deep, and maybe checking behind on the flop is an option. AA is probably a medium strength hand in this spot. I'm starting to think that the idea of 'protection' is over-rated. Balugawhale doesn't like it either. Value, bluff, or to collect dead money are reasons to bet, and if you're 'protecting' you're probably really betting for one of these three reasons.

PokerStars - $0.25 NL (6 max) ZOOM - Holdem - 6 players Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (BTN): $48.22
SB: $37.31
BB: $56.95
UTG: $34.82
MP: $52.47
CO: $30.02

SB posts SB $0.10, BB posts BB $0.25

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.35) Hero has A♥ A♦

fold, MP raises to $0.75, fold, Hero raises to $2.30, SB calls $2.20, fold, MP calls $1.55

Flop: ($7.15, 3 players) 3♦ Q♦ K♥
SB checks, MP checks, Hero bets $4.78, SB calls $4.78, MP calls $4.78

Turn: ($21.49, 3 players) 6♥
SB checks, MP bets $10.26, fold, SB calls $10.26

River: ($42.01, 2 players) 8♣
SB checks, MP bets $35.13 and is all-in, SB calls $19.97 and is all-in

MP shows T♠ J♠ (High Card, King) (Pre 32%, Flop 25%, Turn 14%) SB shows J♦ K♠ (One Pair, Kings) (Pre 68%, Flop 75%, Turn 86%) SB wins $79.95

And nice to see you back in my blog Toby. Now go do some revision.

When MP bets on the turn, what did you put him on? I'd feel in a game that he wouldnt do that with KQ or 33. He would raise the flop especially if sb already called or at least bet bigger on the turn. I'd call this less than half pot bet on the turn, 6h didnt complete any draws.

And yeah, "bet for protection" really means that you bet for value against draws. And you actually dont mind if someone calls with a draw against odds, so a term "protection" seems a bit misapplied.

Originally posted by Luupainaja
When MP bets on the turn, what did you put him on? I'd feel in a game that he wouldnt do that with KQ or 33. He would raise the flop especially if sb already called or at least bet bigger on the turn. I'd call this less than half pot bet on the turn, 6h didnt complete any draws.

His betsizing says it all imo ... I mean it can't be a monster for just 50% pot...

It doesn't induce when you put in 40bb and it gives too good of a price for anything & everything ...

With KQ/sets he'd be all "omg omg, HUGE pot, SUCH A WET BOARD"
and I'd expect a much larger donk on the turn if he decides to not c/r the flop for some reason.

So it looks like exactly what it was - a blocker bet.

Vs that sizing I'm not scared at all there.

really tough spot. You also block the 2 nut flush draws. I'm not sure what I would have done

Originally posted by StaticMoth

Originally posted by Luupainaja
When MP bets on the turn, what did you put him on? I'd feel in a game that he wouldnt do that with KQ or 33. He would raise the flop especially if sb already called or at least bet bigger on the turn. I'd call this less than half pot bet on the turn, 6h didnt complete any draws.

His betsizing says it all imo ... I mean it can't be a monster for just 50% pot...

It doesn't induce when you put in 40bb and it gives too good of a price for anything & everything ...

With KQ/sets he'd be all "omg omg, HUGE pot, SUCH A WET BOARD"
and I'd expect a much larger donk on the turn if he decides to not c/r the flop for some reason.

So it looks like exactly what it was - a blocker bet.

Vs that sizing I'm not scared at all there.

+1 fish absolutely love to block bet draws to 'try and see cheap rivers' in this kind of spot. Also they will often donk out random medium strength hands like Kx because they are shit scared and dont know what to do so....bet for information!

Some good players will use this 'standard vacuum dynamic' to induce vs unknowns by donking out sets, but I think its probabely quite rare at nl25.

Raising (to like 28) and getting it in is probabely the line I would take, calling kinda sucks because there are a million bad cards on the river that will give you tough spots, especially if SB calls too.

Originally posted by Jan217

Originally posted by StaticMoth

Originally posted by Luupainaja
When MP bets on the turn, what did you put him on? I'd feel in a game that he wouldnt do that with KQ or 33. He would raise the flop especially if sb already called or at least bet bigger on the turn. I'd call this less than half pot bet on the turn, 6h didnt complete any draws.

His betsizing says it all imo ... I mean it can't be a monster for just 50% pot...

It doesn't induce when you put in 40bb and it gives too good of a price for anything & everything ...

With KQ/sets he'd be all "omg omg, HUGE pot, SUCH A WET BOARD"
and I'd expect a much larger donk on the turn if he decides to not c/r the flop for some reason.

So it looks like exactly what it was - a blocker bet.

Vs that sizing I'm not scared at all there.

+1 fish absolutely love to block bet draws to 'try and see cheap rivers' in this kind of spot. Also they will often donk out random medium strength hands like Kx because they are shit scared and dont know what to do so....bet for information!

Some good players will use this 'standard vacuum dynamic' to induce vs unknowns by donking out sets, but I think its probabely quite rare at nl25.

Raising (to like 28) and getting it in is probabely the line I would take, calling kinda sucks because there are a million bad cards on the river that will give you tough spots, especially if SB calls too.

+1 back @ you

Originally posted by StaticMoth

Originally posted by Jan217

Originally posted by StaticMoth

Originally posted by Luupainaja
When MP bets on the turn, what did you put him on? I'd feel in a game that he wouldnt do that with KQ or 33. He would raise the flop especially if sb already called or at least bet bigger on the turn. I'd call this less than half pot bet on the turn, 6h didnt complete any draws.

His betsizing says it all imo ... I mean it can't be a monster for just 50% pot...

It doesn't induce when you put in 40bb and it gives too good of a price for anything & everything ...

With KQ/sets he'd be all "omg omg, HUGE pot, SUCH A WET BOARD"
and I'd expect a much larger donk on the turn if he decides to not c/r the flop for some reason.

So it looks like exactly what it was - a blocker bet.

Vs that sizing I'm not scared at all there.

+1 fish absolutely love to block bet draws to 'try and see cheap rivers' in this kind of spot. Also they will often donk out random medium strength hands like Kx because they are shit scared and dont know what to do so....bet for information!

Some good players will use this 'standard vacuum dynamic' to induce vs unknowns by donking out sets, but I think its probabely quite rare at nl25.

Raising (to like 28) and getting it in is probabely the line I would take, calling kinda sucks because there are a million bad cards on the river that will give you tough spots, especially if SB calls too.

+1 back @ you

After seeing the hands, I sort of agree, but at the time I just thought that even a half pot bet commits him here. I'd rather have seen your opinion before I put the results up. Are you trying to tell me that you have something better to do than evaluate my hands immediately after I post them??

Originally posted by mbml
really tough spot. You also block the 2 nut flush draws. I'm not sure what I would have done

Now I feel somewhat better. My 'folding my way to success' strategy probably tipped the balance here.

Let me help you out of the mud and give you smth where you can shine and possibly ridicule me

I often come up with my own logics, but it's hard to know how sound it is at times

Ran into an equity/odds calculation situation ...

Scenario where I'm calling a shove in a "split or lose" situation ...

We get 29% pot odds on the river ...
And we have 40% equity ... obv 0% win equity, just 40% split equity and 60% lose ...

So I counted up the combos that I split against and the combos that crush me.

3 combos crush vs 13 combos of splits.

So 18,75% of the time we get crushed
81,25% of the time we split

Now comes the "sound logic" check part where I'm not very strong

Does it make mathematical sense to combine this "intel" in such a manner:

40% split equity multiplied by the percentage of the split combos (81,25%) to get the "true equity vs pot odds"

In this case we get 40*0,8125 = 32,5% (~2.1:1) equity.

And sice pot odds are 29% (~2.4:1) = it's a call

Correct, yes?
Or too much home made logic?

I THINK this all might still be useless though coz of the fact we still will always have 0% win equity

Might be instead smth along the lines of "how much of other players money/our profit are we splitting after rake when we split vs the extra money we lose when we don't split"

And since the gains that come from splitting are never enough to justify calling for the times we lose a bunch of extra moniex when we don't split ...

Oh no ... no no, it can't be just about that since if we fold, we lose all the money in the pot 100% of the time ...

Brain overloaded ... everything going backwards ...

Math logic - I'm confused !

Teach me!

3 combos crush vs 13 combos of splits.

So 3/16 times you get nothing and 13/16 times you get half the pot, so you get 13/32 = 40.6% of the pot. If the pot odds are 29% it's a call. Or am I missing something?

Originally posted by jbpatzer
3 combos crush vs 13 combos of splits.

So 3/16 times you get nothing and 13/16 times you get half the pot, so you get 13/32 = 40.6% of the pot. If the pot odds are 29% it's a call. Or am I missing something?

But it's 40% of half the pot!?
So I "win" 20% of the actual pot every time I call, which makes it a shitty call?

More shady logic that confuses me

Originally posted by StaticMoth

Originally posted by jbpatzer
3 combos crush vs 13 combos of splits.

So 3/16 times you get nothing and 13/16 times you get half the pot, so you get 13/32 = 40.6% of the pot. If the pot odds are 29% it's a call. Or am I missing something?

But it's 40% of half the pot!?
So I "win" 20% of the actual pot every time I call, which makes it a shitty call?

More shady logic that confuses me

No, it's 40% of the pot. Look at it this way, if it was 0 combos crushed vs 16 combos of splits, you'd split every time and get 50% of the pot back. Seems simple.

Originally posted by jbpatzer

Originally posted by StaticMoth

Originally posted by jbpatzer
3 combos crush vs 13 combos of splits.

So 3/16 times you get nothing and 13/16 times you get half the pot, so you get 13/32 = 40.6% of the pot. If the pot odds are 29% it's a call. Or am I missing something?

But it's 40% of half the pot!?
So I "win" 20% of the actual pot every time I call, which makes it a shitty call?

More shady logic that confuses me

No, it's 40% of the pot. Look at it this way, if it was 0 combos crushed vs 16 combos of splits, you'd split every time and get 50% of the pot back. Seems simple.

Right ... So it seems like a rly ez call then math-wise, though I guess I was looking for more complex answers coz I remember balugawhale saying smth like "you should basically almost never call for splits ... it's rly rly bad, unless the pot is already huge and there's not much more to call" yada yada.

Everyone's a genius after showdown or when seeing the hole cards in the video...

Originally posted by EmanuelC16
Everyone's a genius after showdown or when seeing the hole cards in the video...

Oooo! Oooo! Yes! That's me!

Anyway, had a ridiculous session tonight. Down 4BI (the usual set over set + some suckouts ), thought about going to bed, decided to carry on, ended up break even.

Soon......

Just for a change, here's a deepstacked situation that put a smile on my face. I cbet and give up too much in 3bet pots, so why not make the most of it! ♦

PokerStars - $0.25 NL (6 max) ZOOM - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: $27.84
SB: $14.21
Hero (BB): $51.53
UTG: $26.35
MP: $55.09
CO: $12.85

SB posts SB $0.10, Hero posts BB $0.25

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.35) Hero has A♣ K♥

fold, MP raises to $1.00, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to $3.50, MP calls $2.50

Flop: ($7.10, 2 players) A♠ 6♦ 4♣
Hero bets $3.39, MP calls $3.39

Turn: ($13.88, 2 players) T♣
Hero checks, MP bets $8.00, Hero calls $8.00

River: ($29.88, 2 players) Q♦
Hero checks, MP bets $16.00, Hero calls $16.00

MP shows 9♥ 8♥ (High Card, Ace) (Pre 39%, Flop 5%, Turn 9%)
Hero shows A♣ K♥ (One Pair, Aces) (Pre 61%, Flop 95%, Turn 91%)
Hero wins $59.88

I'm off to Norfolk for the long weekend to visit one of my old friends, so over and out until Monday at the earliest.

Nice hand, but if he bets 100bbs on river it's probably a fold. ♦