PLO-Challenge

I might not be adapted well enough to the micros but I would say yes. I mean don't get me wrong. We are losing the stack here almost all the time in this setup but we lose a lot of value if we shove the flop. The maniac gets the opportunity to fold a straight or weaker flush if we shove OTF. On top of that we can be pretty confident to be beat on a pairing turn if he bets into the empty sidepot. BB's range is also usually strong here, consisting of a lot of nutflushes, some sets, not a lot of random bluffs and in case he is bad some straights or weak flushes. Maniacs range can be any flush, any set and depending on his level of play Postflop more or less straights and sometimes maybe even 2pairs. So, waiting for a safe turn and not scaring him away is way better

On top of that we can be pretty confident to be beat on a pairing turn if he bets into the empty sidepot.

thats an interesting thought because i was going to post that he wont let go OTF vs raise but might turn a weaker hand into a bluff on paired turn.

Originally posted by efkay

On top of that we can be pretty confident to be beat on a pairing turn if he bets into the empty sidepot.

thats an interesting thought because i was going to post that he wont let go OTF vs raise but might turn a weaker hand into a bluff on paired turn.

Well, even maniacs (and we only know about preflop here) don't bluff into an empty sidepot that often. Bluffing in an empty sidepot is one of the worst possible plays in poker. But on top: what hands does he call a potsizebet OTF that could bluff the turn? And even if he did bluff on a paired turn, the third player would have boated (or still nutflush that beats us) very often. So, in that case we also don't win much as we lose the main pot to BB. So, we can't call on a paired turn.
I personally see it very rarely that even a maniac pays off OTF with a low flush or straight as Hero always has a strong flush when he raises and never makes a blocker play. But I am not playing these stakes and I am not sure how much smarter the maniacs are on midstakes compared to microstakes

Omg.. lots of text here. Just opened 3 tabs to reference at anything.

Originally posted by efkay
H1: fold preflop. with assumption villain is no good player I dont see any foldequity with NFB on river

H2: fold preflop. What are you trying to achieve with AT43 non nut suited OOP in most likely 4 way pot? are you really check/2.5x raising the flop with a 4 high fd and a non nut gutshot 4way? insane comes to my mind. playing maniacs successfully is not to be meant to fight fire with fire and start playing like one.

H3: fold preflop. dont 3bet with top gapped ss rundowns.

H4: not sure about iso 3betting but i think it helps if you would have an A/K blocker plus nns or ds instead of ss. flop is interesting because you have SDV with that queens but no spade or kingblocker, i guess the cbet is ok aand with backdoors checkback becomes an option. if you continue on turn dont 2nd barrel without blocker imo. once river double pairs, a flush doesnt need to fold anymore so another bullet you can save.

H5: fold preflop. Q864s is already close open on BTN imo. i would like to see some general stats of yours if you adjust like this to all maniacs

Originally posted by Kyyberi
Looked the pic and first 4 are easy folds pre. None of those are even close.

Originally posted by tranceactor

How do you see those hands yourself?

H1 is a preflop RFI according to PLO-Matrix. We would open here any :Ax::Jx::8x:x or :Ax::Jx::3x:+:3x:+ non-Ace singlesuited.

H2 would be indeed a preflop fold but hu against the maniac I can try to hit 2pair or better to stack him for a comparable cheap limp. Hand has wheel-potential too. That´s the goal here. Yes, the play to gii with such a weak(-medium) strength draw is quite variance rocketing I am prob not rly bad here against the loose range he is prepared to rumble. But the raise i see indeed as a mistake, calling would have been the superior play since I have no FE. The limp-call I also consider as a mistake, should have limp-folded.

H3 I agree. Bad squeeze here by me.

H4 Against a loose range :Qx::Qx::Jx::Tx: singlesuited seems to be a pretty standard 3-bet too according to PLO-Matrix. He would even go down here to hands like Q♠:Q♥:T♠:7♦: and Q♥:Q♣:6♣:5♠:.

H5 I agree. According to PLO-Matrix this is a clear preflop fold like :Kx::8x: singlesuited hands aswell.

Originally posted by Kyyberi

Didn't go further, but these go along the with some of the hands you have posted in the forum. Clear mistakes preflop, and overplaying hands postflop. And I don't think that is even an opinion, I don't think there is a winning player on this planet that would agree that most of the above hands are well played.

Your references are pretty unclear: Some hands, one winning player on this planet (?) and most of above hands. Since you did not take a look at the other hands mentioned here, it does not make sense to start a discussion without context. Alltogether I posted quite a lot of hands in the forum, I am aware, that my style is overly loose preflop and my postflop hands are played very exploitative.

Now the interesting part is, how do you react to this feedback? What I have seen in the forums during my years with poker, there are usually three ways to react:
Denial: skip feedback, and hold the thought that hands were well played. With this, there will never be progress.
Semi-acceptance: Accepting the truth that in those hands there were some mistakes, but hanging on to the thought that overall startegy is still good. Usually, there will be no clear progress as the underlying truth about strategy is not fully accepted.
Acceptance: You take a critical look to your game and understand that your strategy is not good at the moment. And that is the reason why there are no good results.

If you choose the acceptance, then the next step is to figure out why you are playing in the way you are. Why open hands, that are not even close to opening by any method? Everyone has access to solver ranges for affordable price, or very close to solver ranges for free (PJ ranges). Even PPT rankings would help tremendously.

I am not sure what is your actual feedback? "Overplay" is heavily depending on the range/style you are up against, otherwise it might be for value. I am aware of this tendency in my play at this stakes so it cannot be a matter of "acceptance" but more if it is appropriate according to villain and the odds.

edit. Squeezing with Jd8h6c5h? ... I get it if you get monkey tilted and just pot pre anything, but you posted those hands to show that you are NOT tilting. From where have you learned your preflop ranges? Any idea how much you should 3bet vs. MP open, CO call from the BTN normally? And how much it affects your preflop strategy if MP opens 30% instead of 20%?

...

I agree this hand was played on tilt. Should have just folded pre. Ehm. Those hands are not supposed to show that I was not tilting, the idea behind it was to start an discussion to evaluate if and how much there was tilt involved:

Originally posted by Mascherano95
... To let you decide if the hand was tilted, technically misplayed or well played...

And my conclusion is, yes there was, the big losing sessions include lots of tilty hands. The remaining question imo would be, the points mentioned by tranceactor how I got to that point and what are the reasons behind it. Also interesting, how much it actually affected the EV to orbits that might have been played tighter.

Originally posted by tranceactor
why still playing so much poker instead of following JNandez advice? And why do you play when you are mentally tired after work? You are too tired to do theory but you are not too tired to play?

I am following his advice now?! I´ll get my first paycheck next week. Yes. Theory is much more exhausting cause you gotta process new content. Daily grind on the other hand is quite autmatic already and I feel like I can earn a few extra bucks. But it does not have to. This month will show what´s possible aside.

What would you tell someone who does affiliate marketing for multiple years, invests a lot of time and still earns not even 100$ a month? What would you tell a footballer who wants to make it as a pro but is already 30 years old, tries for years and never has played in the 6th league or above?

I dont know much about afiliate marketing but footall is a heavily physical demanding sport where success is to a high degree depending on your body constitution. You are just not running fast enough at your 40´s to compete at a professional level. Btw my teacher told me there was that guy from Argentine, who started his football career with 30 years. About business this is completely different. Studies have shown, that a lot of self-made millionars have failed multiple times before their business sky-rocketed mainly because the owners persistently repeated to take high financial risks even in their late 30´s. An extreme example would be KFC-founder Harland Sanders, a lifelong broke cook who made his first million after retirement at the age of 65.

As usual my response might sound harsh too, but I would like to add, that I appreciate all of your comments and contributions very much. No trolls, lots of interesting thoughts, that´s great!

I don't have access to my sims atm, so can't really confirm these. But are you sure you are looking at the 100bb tab in Matrix? Cold calling AJ96, suited to J preflop? 3betting QQT7, QQ65? Those sound really weird.

edit: Checked with Vision, although that is for PLO500 rake. At PLO20 you should play tighter.

AJ96 is 100% fold against UGT open and a caller. Even double suited.
BTN vs MP open, QQJT is 3bet only double suited. QQ65 is a call if suited to Q, otherwise fold. QQT7 is call if suited or double suited, rainbow is a fold.

Now the thing is that at high rake (especially if you play at ipoker!!!!) your preflop should be a bit tighter, especially for calling ranges. I also have done a sim where there is no Fold Equity for 3betting (truth at small stakes often), and that tightens the 3betting ranges from the bottom.

I don't have access to Matrix anymore, but I have a strong feeling that you have mislooked/misunderstood it.

Originally posted by Kyyberi
I don't have access to my sims atm, so can't really confirm these. But are you sure you are looking at the 100bb tab in Matrix? Cold calling AJ96, suited to J preflop? 3betting QQT7, QQ65? Those sound really weird.

edit: Checked with Vision, although that is for PLO500 rake. At PLO20 you should play tighter.

AJ96 is 100% fold against UGT open and a caller. Even double suited.
BTN vs MP open, QQJT is 3bet only double suited. QQ65 is a call if suited to Q, otherwise fold. QQT7 is call if suited or double suited, rainbow is a fold.

Now the thing is that at high rake (especially if you play at ipoker!!!!) your preflop should be a bit tighter, especially for calling ranges. I also have done a sim where there is no Fold Equity for 3betting (truth at small stakes often), and that tightens the 3betting ranges from the bottom.

I don't have access to Matrix anymore, but I have a strong feeling that you have mislooked/misunderstood it.

Yes I mislooked, it is 100bb but I was looking in the RFI section cause I thought it was an raise first in. Sry, my mistake: the 3-bet is a obious misplay, I would assume due to tilt. :f_biggrin::f_biggrin:

QQ65ss is the weakest hand BU would 3-bet vs a CO open.

Not according to Vision. BTNvsCO, there are no QQss 3bets, unless you have an Ace in the hand (there are "some" combos, with really low frequency).

January, grind aside the work trial:

Earned me some additional BR$ but the success is somewhat questionable. Plo5 and Plo10 mixed, whereas Plo10 was quite lucky above EV and might saved me.

But at least I managed to get the Volume I aimed for. I wait now for my paycheck to deposit and take the 8th shot at Plo20 anyways.

Originally posted by Kyyberi
Not according to Vision. BTNvsCO, there are no QQss 3bets, unless you have an Ace in the hand (there are "some" combos, with really low frequency).

Well I took this as an incentive to study the 3bet range BU vs CO. You are right, should only 3bet ~AQQ9-5 good singlesuit and AQQx weak singlesuit. No idea where I was looking..

Edit: Ugh, those ranges are so complex... this makes the learning process so slow. I am reall tired after having 2 study session each an hour. Sure you can say, grind 20 hours, study 30 hours etc. but one week after another this is not realistic because I just cannot concentrate any longer or internalize so much new content just like that after 40-50 hours with those madmen at my job.

There is also this itchy boric and chlorid acid I have a protectve equipment like this:
https://gyazo.com/c581e3848e4e10f12b4a4ee828b18f50

but it is insufficient. My hands are swollen and my neck is itchy even after my 10th shower.

There is also this cleaning lady, fantastic body, very sexy who obviously wants me to give it to here. Teasing me and driving me crazy all the time. In general I find myself being much more attractive and getting tons of attention from the ladies after my 110th day of nofap now. But I have no time, no energy and not even a car. I am do workouts with my smartphone app called "Fitify". After 17 weeks I built some muslces (gained 13 kg, I guess a lot of it is fat too) but I still have troubles with my posture. 13 years of public school education left its mark. I have muscle tensions and not the best sleep. My hips are blocked and did not feel fully mobilized for years. I have pain when I have bend down, like a 70 year old grandpa.

Btw I am afraid too that after a jizz off I would just collapse due to lack of energy since my ridiculously high testosterone level seems to keep me still pushing forward. So hot and sexy girls smiling at me somehow scare the shit out of me. Anyways, last weekend I tried to make an hand-chart for the BUvsCO 3-bet but I did not finish it. So I wanted to do it this weekend. This morning looking into my Excel sheet, everything was poorly structured and it got me confused. Basically I had to start a new one, this time just the Pair-hands to get it done:

Raise/4-bet
AAds, AAsa, AABss, AAx3+ss, AA55+rb, AABrb, AAx5+rb, AKK-QQds, AJJ7+ds, ATT8+ds, AJ-T99ds, AT-988ds,

Raise/Call
AA9-32ss, AA44-22rb, AA7-54-3rb, KKQQ-44ds, KKQ-7J-6ds, QQJJ-88ds, QQJ-9T-8ds, JJTT-88ds, JJT-98ds, TT99-88ds, JTT9ds, TT98ds, 9988-77ds, 8877-66ds, 7766ds

Raise/Fold
AKK-QQss, AKKrb, AJJ6-2ds, AJJss, ATT7-2ds, ATTsa, ABTTss, A998-2ds, AK-899ss, AK-588sa, AK-988ss, AK-477sa, AT-766ds, A9-655ds

My PLO sheet was a mess too until a few days ago. But it just took too much time to check it in game, let alone memorise it. I have now make a simplified one that can be kept in memory (a priority to me). I prefer that even if it leads to loss of EV (fractions of BB most likely) due to oversimplification.

I will be very much looking forward to the report of your 8th PLO20 attempt!

Your preflop doesn't have to be perfect. Just close enough to thresholds.

Let's say that we are opening single suited QQ from UTG. There are two thresholds, one for kicker+dangler and one for connected QQ.

As we open all AQQ but not all KQQ, there is our threshold. And the exact threshold depends on the sim (or if you are using other preflop ranges, like PokerJuice). The one I have open here has the threshold at K7/K9 (depending if it's suited to K or Q). Now in reality KQQ9 and KQQ8 has virtually the same EV so your winrate is not defined by whether you open both, one or neither of those hands. The actual EV is affected by so many other things. It's just if you start to open hands like KQQ3 you deviate far enough from the threshold that it MIGHT affect your winrate. But still, if you have postflop edge you can even play KQQ3 with breakeven or marginally profitable.

The other threshold is at QQT8/QQ98 (depending if it's suited to Q or not), and once again the hands around that threshold are with same EV. Just don't go to disconnected QQ, like QQ54.

For some people using charts is useful way to visualize the range, but as you have access to PLO Matrix you can easily see the thresholds. Why won't you try just writing down the threshold, instead if putting in the syntax?

EP, QQss: All AQQ, connected QQ, all double pairs.

Instead of writing down the whole range from UTG, divide it to few sub categories. It's easier to practise and learn sub category than the whole range.

I have seen same winrates from good/decent players with VPIP 15, 20 or 25. There is no absolute optimal preflop range that suits all. As said, there are so many things that affect your winrate besides opening range, that you shouldn't be TOO focused on it. Just make it close enough, and focus on how to play those hands postflop more.

That being said, of course good preflop makes the postflop easier and more profitable. But if the preflop is decent, it increases winrate more to spend 20h on postflop than 20h preflop. Once the preflop is somewhat good, it will become naturally better if you check close hands after the session (where you are not sure how to play them preflop).

Good postflop can make profits even with bad preflop, but if postflop is bad then no preflop will save it.

And I'd like to say you do these decompositions of an easy to remember range very well Kyyberi. Your 2019 PLO Preflop coaching video on YouTube is very good and has influenced how I approach the problem.

February, entering the Low-Stakes:

This time shotting was succesful. I mixed PLO10 and PLO20 whereas the EV-graph of PLO20 is break-even only. Well, but this also means PLO10 was a success opposite to January. However imo 14k is a little thin to determine what I call a "tendency". So I´ll add another month grinding those stakes instead of making a large deposit. After 5.7k hands I got sick due to work conditions, I felt I lack focus and I still do not feel 100% recovered today which might be a reason for the following plateau afterwards. But this is really hard to say, despite I´ve started to make hand reviews again.

For my study goals it´s not going optimally neither. I finished to extract the BUvsCO ranges including 3bet-fold, 3bet-shove, 3bet-call and call from the PLO-Matrix which feels like such a small portion compared to what lies still ahead of me. I still have to write it down more compressed and still got the memorize it better, but I feel like my play otb already improved. I was indeed 3betting way too loose and with wrong range portions. With the book I am at the turn strategies now and I repeated the content of the Jnandez MM 10-week transformation where I finished reading at week 6.

My fitness is a total desaster and I did not make a workout for over 2 weeks. It is frustrating how I lost my muscles so quickly and I feel tired and exhausting and I have little head ache while writing this. I really hope I will be physically recovered quickly since there is such a strong relation to the mental game and general performance.

March, parabola down and up:

After my illness I did not played at all the first 5 days. After rejoining, I had (as always) felt difficulties to get back into the games, playing too loose with lack of awareness what´s going on at the tables. Together with running quite beyond EV it lead towards awful results losing nearly all my profits from February. After a little mental recovery and a fat 15 buyin deposit I managed to stabilize my mental game. Anyways, I have to keep grinding PLO20 in April aswell.

Studies aint going the best neither. I finished "Mastering Small Stakes PLO" and the ranges from BU and also started memorizing it. I nearly did about an hour but I feel like I could have done more if I had more focus. After getting tired after a 30-40 minute study session I just stop and I have never been able to add a complete second study session in the morning, which would be great so I could (together with the max. of 4 hours grind) utilize my full mental capacities (studies have shown, that the brain capacity of a human brain being able to gather and process information per day is around 6 hours). Now I have to study for the driving license (they accused me of taking alcohol or drugs). Despite the tests were negative I have to do that againcause I missed the 18 months recovery deadline. It´s a fuckin joke. And on the top of that, I failed the driving test 2 days ago. That governmental harassement costed me 1000€ + so far. It´s incredible how I get exploited on others area than poker. I have to study the driving test and it will take away precious time and focus I am able to spend for studies atm. I´ve not been able to keep up my fitness workout routines this month neither.

This alltogether kinda stressed me so much that I unfortunately have started smoking 3 weeks ago.. I´ll try a quit next month. Not buyin another pack of

When life gives you turds, it's hard to play good poker. Focus on getting life stabilized, quit smoking asap and use poker time to study, think and learn. And hit the tables after that.

PLAN MODIFICATION, TRANSFORMING NEW HABITS (again)

I decided to rewind the PLO 10-week Transition program from the Jnandez Mastermind abo. I hope there will be no copyright violations so I will solely reflect the topics shortly from my own view, how topics look like that suit my current state of development and exchange the hand samples with private ones from my own data base.

I´ve quit my job for health reasons and will start a new one next monday as a storehouse worker with 2 shifts where the first is from 6-14 am and the second from 12-8 pm. I try to find a balance between poker studies and physical fitness workouts. I found maintaining a good health and physical well-being beside a regular daily routine having a huge impact on my mental game making a difference of multiple bb/h. At the moment I grind 3-4 sessions a day each lasting 40 minutes.

My new plan is to have my weight training Mo, We, and Fr in the forenoon, poker studies on Tu, Th and Sa when I have to work on the intermediate layer and do it in the afternoon when I have to work on the early shift. The sunday forenoon is fix reserved for a bycicle ride as a cardio workout. I will grind a single session fix each work day and 2 in the weekends starting with 45 min per session. If things go well I will try to add a second grinding session in the weeks I have to work on early shifts. My first weight training program for newbies fits the purpose of my training comeback. It will endure 12 weeks. For my PLO 10-weeks transition I will recap the first 2 weeks now and re-enter at week 3 on Monday.

My current situation:
Finished the book Mastering Small-Stakes PLO by Jnandez but forgot many stuff. I will have to read multiple times but will arrange it behind the transition program. I am playing PLO20 where a month was profitable while another month was break-even. This month started good so I can hope to take shots on PLO50 next month. I don´t wanna spend too much time on PLO20 since I am pretty sure I already can beat the stakes with a 2-digit winrate long-term. I did not manage to set up a basic preflop gameplan but I managed to become more tight and improve my range awareness otb and my starting-hand selection preflop.

Desired situation:
I want to stay at the grind mixing PLO50 and PLO100 while preparing a professional bankroll and the skill required to beat PLO200. This would enable to be not dependant on work which frees up capacities but it is no must. Since the benefit of having a solic basic income, federal promoted pension time and health insurance is pretty nice aswell. But I see the urge to quit once I become constrained due to lack of time for deep studies, the signal to do so is if I feel struggles to beat the next higher stake. For the beginning I also found a full-time job routine very helpful to implement daily routines compared to the life I had living as an hermit in Hungary.

The first milestone of entering Low-Stakes and reading through the Book Mastering Small-Stakes PLO is achieved. The second is that I want to have a meaningful sample beating PLO50 with a similar winrate like on PLO20 and enough cash on my bank account to replenish my br with 20 stacks at any time given. Unfortunately my second study milestone, setting up a basic preflop gameplan still has to wait, since it seems to be better to take an overall approach which is provided with the 10-weeks transition program. Beside this I will make hand reviews of any hand played where more than 25% of my stack was involved and post some of them in the forum. The starting hands from those reviews will be manually typed into a starting-hands grid which is templated by the chart also given by Jnandez MM-program. This ensures, I have at least a steady and slow progress working with my preflop ranges. This way I can do both, hand reviews and preflop gameplan work.

Failures so far were:
Wrong job (chemical damage to my health, working overtime).
Switching between different study approaches.
Overestimation of my ability to restart my workout routines.
Too heavy focus on solely preflop studies.

My Strategy:

GTO Solutions (preflop game plan is modified but still relies on GTO templates).
Adjustments (being flexible with exploitative bet-sizings, adapt AFq´s against different player types, avoid swingy reg confrontations).
Balance (play more tight to stabilize the red-line, reduce betting frequencies otf and oop against reggish players).
Optimization (find a new balance between physical workouts and study sessions, optimize the study-play ratio).
Integration (communicate goals, plans to get reflection, take responsibilty for my actions, having clear ideas and formulate them).

Who am I becoming?
I am becoming a professional poker-player.

What are the reasons to overestimate my disciplin?
Brain-Masturbation when imaging everything will be easier, so the actual drive to perform sinks.

How strong is my willpower actually?
Falling into old habits like nicotine addiction, lie in bed too long, no breakfast are a big source of risks and lowers my speed towards the ultimate goal.

What are my values besides the tables?
I want to remain a honest, straightfoward and emotionally sensitive person without fear leaving the comfort zone whenever it is necessary.

My HUD Display:

My Color-Coding System:

Tight, solid regular = red
Loose, solid regular = orange
Weak, erratic regular = yellow
Straightforward, nitty regular = blue
Weak, passive regular = cyan
Loose, passive fish = green
Aggressive, erratic fish = purple
Loose, maniacal aggressive fish = pink

Implement SPR´s together with Allin- and Fold-Equities required from 0.5 to 5.

My BRM remains the 35+5 approach.

I will try to get more knowledge about PLO postflop game.

Family All-In. I was the only favourite.. (Power of being not dominated).

iPoker - €0.20 PL Hi (6 max) - Omaha Hi - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BB: 107.6 BB
UTG: 184.25 BB
CO: 85.8 BB
Hero (BTN): 302.35 BB
SB: 71.5 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 8:spade: T:club: 9:heart: 6:club:

UTG raises to 3.5 BB, CO calls 3.5 BB, Hero raises to 15.5 BB, SB calls 15 BB, BB calls 14.5 BB, UTG raises to 81 BB, CO raises to 85.8 BB, Hero calls 70.3 BB, SB calls 56 BB, BB raises to 107.6 BB, UTG calls 26.6 BB, Hero calls 21.8 BB

Flop: (480.1 BB, 5 players) 3:club: 9:diamond: T:heart:
UTG bets 76.65 BB, Hero calls 76.65 BB

Why squeeze that hand? Solver just plain folds that preflop on any action, even to CO open.

Originally posted by Kyyberi
Why squeeze that hand? Solver just plain folds that preflop on any action, even to CO open.

Preflop sqeeze was a mistake.

I found a huge leak in my game. I am cold-calling way too much preflop:

BU 24%
CO 18%
MP 16%

Originally posted by Mascherano95
I found a huge leak in my game. I am cold-calling way too much preflop:

BU 24%
CO 18%
MP 16%

Do you lose much after making these cold-calls? If you have a decent edge over your opponents then your optimum cold-calling frequencies will be skewed from GTO as will be your 3betting frequencies. Perhaps you should review a few of these hands to see whats going on.