[Closed] SNG dissection

Hey everyone

Here's my thoughts on the video:

-QJs at 2:05 I like the flop and turn bet (maybe I'd bet a bit more on the turn like 200) and river is C/F for me too. I prefer betting against weaker players because they fold flop or turn easily and not give too much consideration to what the bettor has. On the river the villain makes a pot bet and considering the board we can never call there.

-AQo at 5:00 I like the raise but not always. In this case when hero's chipstack is less than starting value I prefer to fold and keep my chips for a better spot.

-K4s at 7:30 is a push for me. I doubt anyone will dare call us with wider ranges than Flows displayed in the video and if they do we still have some suckout potential. Considering this is the 6.50s though we can expect everyone to call very tight.

-ATo hand at 10:30 I also like to push. Yes sometimes it's a trap but more often it will be weakness. Pushing in spots like this can win u a lot of money in the long run.

-33 at 13:00 I like the push because of the blinds closing in on us and we also should have a tight image at this point. Even if the move appears to be slightly -EV it's difficult to expect we will get a better hand to push with before we have to pay the blinds

-65o at 14:40 is a fold for me because the BB is a shortstack and I don't really want to give him the chance to pick up my chips. If the BB and SB were both average stacks it would be a push for me

-KJo at 17:30 agree with Flows 100%, I'd rather push 87s than KJo though

-84o at 23:15 also agree with Flows 100%

-J5s at 24:00 I like a push there, very often 2 live cards, hero was folding a lot so we have a lot of fold equity, fold is not too bad though

-K8s at 26:40 I like the fold, two shortstacks in the blinds make this a very difficult push to take

-K3o at 30:30 easy push for me as well, BB doesn't have to risk anything by calling us with anything but a tight range

-K8s at 33:10 I like the push though I agree with Flows' comments on the hand. However I don't think the BB is good enough to realize that the hero is stealing in that spot most of the time, though it will hurt every time hero will be called by a strong hand as hero won't have many outs left. Personal style makes the decision, both pushing or folding have it's merits

All in all I also very much like Hero's play, I believe with experience the confidence to make marginal pushes will come as well. Keep at it, always look to improve ur game and I'm sure the results will be positive

Very nice job Flows, for the first video I think it's a job well done! Hope more material comes our way so that this blog can help improve everyone's game Step up folks, don't be shy

Originally posted by JVV
And on 11 min dont you think it would be better to just push AT to a openlimp?

I must agree, I forgot about that one, but yeah I shove the ATo over the limper...

I think the QJs at 2:05 hand is ok but would give up and c/f the flop on that board .

I believe this is where I get into trouble the 88 at 5:10 hand I would push into limpers and the AQo at 5:50 first in I would at least put in a raise. Maybe these are a few leaks in my game.

Hero did very well in conserving chips for later pushes.
Do you think it is better to save chips early with the marginal hands like the AQo and 88 hand or to wait for later stages or better spots to push. I think the later stages when ATC come into play your risking alot on the bubble.

Great video hero wp. I think a few videos of bubble busts would be good to show the do's and don'ts of bubble play.

I really like where this blog goes and also about the studygoup idea.

Is it the idea you get material from other people and then analyse these and discuss them? If so I a would be willing to give you some as I always looking for ways to improve my game. Although I don't know if it would be a winning one I just at an other downswing ♠_cry:

Originally posted by FrozenRope
I think the QJs at 2:05 hand is ok but would give up and c/f the flop on that board .

I believe this is where I get into trouble the 88 at 5:10 hand I would push into limpers and the AQo at 5:50 first in I would at least put in a raise. Maybe these are a few leaks in my game.

Hero did very well in conserving chips for later pushes.
Do you think it is better to save chips early with the marginal hands like the AQo and 88 hand or to wait for later stages or better spots to push. I think the later stages when ATC come into play your risking alot on the bubble.

Great video hero wp. I think a few videos of bubble busts would be good to show the do's and don'ts of bubble play.

I feel like talking about the AQo hand a bit... there are definitely strong arguments for raising, pushing and folding... so I don't think you can actually make a mistake here... But at these limits I personally favour a shove. The reason for this is I simply hate to fold this hand so that is never an option for me... I don't like the raise at these limits because I find that very often you get a caller and multiple callers and 2/3rds of the time you have to give up the hand and a decent chunk of your stack... against a single caller a c-bet also commits a large portion of your stack whereas it is still the best line as checking OOP or checking behind is waaay too weak. So I prefer to shove because A) I have a ton of FE and can fold out the marginal hands that call and create marginal spots, B) there are soooo many bad players that will call with worse or you're flipping so max value when you win and finally C) you still have a chance of doubling up when you get called by a better hand. I just think there are too many marginal spots on lower limits when the fish cold call... if I am on a table with decent regs then I like the raise, because they won't call but shove instead, then it's easier to play against...

I feel in coming videos we are going to look at many spots on the bubble, it's only natural, so I feel there is a ton of potential there ♦

sirilidion

I really like where this blog goes and also about the studygoup idea.

Is it the idea you get material from other people and then analyse these and discuss them? If so I a would be willing to give you some as I always looking for ways to improve my game. Although I don't know if it would be a winning one I just at an other downswing

We are going to be looking at HH from various sources... but more to come on that in the near future, so if people want their HHs reviewed there will be some criteria involved, so keep looking and keep active

For me the AQo hand isn't as problematic. Folding is the most logical option in that spot for me. I don't see much point in risking all of our chips for those low blinds while a raise alone will often put us in trouble post-flop. In situations like that I prefer to keep my chips together and hope for a better spot.

The QJs hand is different though. In that hand hero has more BBs and with that more room to maneuver (or decide on bet sizes). Also hero has already hit the flop and the Bet flop Bet turn line are reasonable as they will win the pot a lot of the time. The fact that villain plays back at us is unfortunate but I still feel we have a better option to play the QJs hand postlfop than to risk our stack with the AQo hand in the preflop.

So bottom line for me are effective stack sizes and risk vs. reward ratio It's good to see so much discussion after the first video, hope more of this comes still

Thinking about the AQo hand I agree that raising wouldn't be a great option as our stack was only 1070 in chips which is still decent but we would be crippled if we get a caller then we cbet and get called. For me I would have shoved and hoped for the best which is usually run into a monster. Folding does have its merits but I like to pick up blinds whenever possible.

Do you think this great blog would be better suited to be in the SNG forums. As it may get lost in a sea of blogs.

2:06 The QJs is played ok IMO. I don't think I would ever check that flop. On the turn I might check though and call a smallish bet since I think it would be such a great spot for him to bluff..

5:10 A push from MP3 is definitely and option. I would probably push it.

5:40 AQ from MP I would raise. I don't think anyone will call your shove with worse but I can see people calling a raise with all kinds of hands.. Your stack is not that big but it's just too big to hope to ever get called with a worse hand if you shove IMO.

10:26 AT I would most definitely push this. Especially into this guy who apparently likes to limp UTG a lot..

23:00 KJo I don't like that push from UTG because I actually think that a lot of people know what you are doing or find some weird reasons of their own to call you. Like that guy with 55. I basically stopped pushing very loose from UTG unless I'm really like 3BB short or something..

33:48 K8s is a push for me into this guy. I really think he's calling way too tight here.

Hmmm... I am liking the different ideas on the AQo hand... interesting as we have had arguments for folding, raising and shoving... I still maintain that I get called by worse hands often enough for me to be happy with the shove... There are enough fish out there that call with weaker As, KQ, KJ, sometimes even QJ and JTs, and I have experienced this up to the $33s... TBH players should NOT call with weaker hands and should be able to put me on a tighter shoving range, so that's why I will raise into stronger players... I think with strong post flop skills and good reads the raise is definitely strong here...

I have to add that in these marginal spots I also favour a shove because 1. it's unexploitable, and 2. because I play many tables it requires less thinking on my part and is most assuredly +EV, so I tend to shove...

I havnt had a chance to see the video yet as a few mates has been round. I will watch it tomorow and give my comments.

2:03 - QJs freeplay:
On the flop we are vs the small blind and UTG limper. I think c/f is VERY weak as TP is often good here so far. c/c is an option but taking the initiative in an unraised pot is better imo to develop some FE.

Turn play: I recently read an article on ps.com on turn play (silver section) and it helps a lot in this situation. We still have TP decent kicker and some equity against hands that called us on the flop (T/Q bad kicker/low pp/straight draws/A high). I see the c/f line here as weak and not an option. The question is whether to c/c as a ‘bluff induce’ or bet. The problem with c/c is we get into 'way ahead way behind' situations which are tricky oop. I like the bet line because we generate some FE ourselves and we can easily determine whether we are still good based on our opponents actions. The turn is b/f.

River: after the call on the turn I think on the river im check/calling a small river bet up to ½ pot size against this loose station. The turn bet could be a little bigger maybe closer to 2/3 pot but I think hes calling no matter what our size is if he has us beat.

05:10 - 88: push over a limper is fine here I think as well with 13bb

05:50 - AQo: when 13bb here I think a push is also fine. I think the raise gets us into horribly ugly situations + the cbet is very expensive relative to our stack.

10:30 - ATo: we can push over the limp here but I think its very marginal because they love to limp call any pp and KQ/KJ type hands. However I think with the FE we gain its probably +EV.

13:00 - 33: this is an easy fold for me HOWEVER if we had pushed the 88 or AT hand previously we wouldn’t need to think about this one.

30:30 - K3o: hero recognized that this was easy push haha

33:44 - K8s: think I agree with Flows, I much prefer pushing the K3o as the shorty and folding this K8 with the ss on 3bb.

Review: I love the use of SnG wizard. Explanations are very clear. The discussions we are developing are excellent.

There were A LOT of very marginal situations in this review which is good to develop discussions.

One variable I would like to keep in mind is that multi-tablers often prefer folding marginal spots in early levels and loosening up later on when the reward is higher (especially on low stakes).

Congratluations Flows and I cant wait for the next one!

Ideas for future videos: definitely more bubble play. Possibly a 'joint review' with two judges over skype or something? I always enjoy two people reviewing at the same time makes it entertaining and gives more opinion.

Hi everyone,
glad to see the blog is on a very good way! Thank you for all those discussions and positive comments. That motivates me (and I'm sure I can say that for Nick and Atoks as well) even more!

Originally posted by JVV
[...]
And on 11 min dont you think it would be better to just push AT to a openlimp?
[...]

I want to point out something to this question.
In this video I tried to not tell you what's the right play, but what aspects are reasons for certain plays. If I answer this question with "yes" (which I would do ♠_p: ) that wouldn't really help. Imo it's better to tell you under which circumstances you can push.

Originally posted by LuborC
5:40 AQ from MP I would raise. I don't think anyone will call your shove with worse but I can see people calling a raise with all kinds of hands.. Your stack is not that big but it's just too big to hope to ever get called with a worse hand if you shove IMO.

this!

Originally posted by FrozenRope
Do you think this great blog would be better suited to be in the SNG forums. As it may get lost in a sea of blogs.

I don't know... it is still a blog. A good reason might be that only registered members watch the video...

If there are any open questions ask me directly (@Flows or sth like that)! Otherwise I will not comment on every hand because I think I have explained my ideas about the hands and I don't want to repeat myself.

Flows

Good Day...

Thank you to everybody who has participated in this blog so far...

Right, what we are looking for now is volunteers who would like their game reviewed. You can get your SNG go game reviewed by myself, Flows and Atoks and the video will be posted in the blog for discussion. What better way to work on your game?

There are a few criteria though:

1. Hand Histories have to have a minimum buy-in of $5.50 because we feel that if you read the articles, post hands, practice on the ICM trainer and work on your game you will have no problem reaching this limit.

2. We will consider first those members that are most active in the forums and who already put a lot back into the community.

3. When sending us your hand history you have to include a detailed reason of why you deserve to have your hand history reviewed (creativity will get rewarded here ).

Right if we have missed anything I'm sure tghis post will get edited!

Anyway, so if you are interested in getting your game reviewed, send your Pstrategy name, hand history and reason for it to be reviewed to:

sngdissection[a]hotmail.com

And look forward to hearing from you!

NickParkes, Flows and Atoks

This is great, watched the video and although I don't agree with everything I like the way you think about this game

Email sent btw

Originally posted by Flows

Originally posted by lessthanthreee
idea:

if people ask questions about the videos and we get answers from discussions in this blog maybe you could update the original post with a simple few sentences (Question: / Answer: ) so the final information is easily accessible?

sounds like a good idea, but as you will see there will be a few (or even more) spots that don't have one solution.

it always depends.... ♠_rolleyes:

perhaps you can post a link to the relevant discussion threads on the same page as video? Or make a thread where you group the links.

This thread is gold and I'd like to thank everyone who is participating.
I don't have anything to add, but I love to read and learn from how others are thinking about the game.

Well I sent a email looking forward to your next installment.

Hey guys,

First congrats on a great blog, I am very much looking forward to reading it over the coming weeks and months!

I have one question with regards to the video. I am currently using the SnGwiz trial and I was wondering how it comes up with the default ranges, for example when you look at a hand and it says SB will call 10% and BB 5%. Is this based upon the players previous actions or just within a given 'normal' range?

Hey everyone. I just uploaded the new video!

let the discussions begin! ♠_smile:

This is awesome.
Will check the video imidiatley and comment back.
I am so excited about this.
THx

Interesting video with the 3 of you adding comments,

JJ is a tough hand to play regardless, with out the reads, folding is the best option to wait for a better spot.

Q4s hand I would fold

As well as the 83o hand, pushing that hand although the sb limped in is such a tough spot to commit your tourney life to a flip, if he will fold his hand and judging by the show down he would have called.

T7o on the bubble another interesting spot, he has roughly 1900 in chips blinds are 200-400 personally I would fold I know the main problem is the blinds are going to eat us up if we don't take a stand T7o, I would take my chances with the fold, This is why I'm not placing ITM enough. I realize with pushing T7o in this spot has tons of fold equity as our image has to be really good at this table as we have been fairly tight.

So as you see what I think and what I would do are entirely different. Thanks for taking the time to help us out with our games much appreciated. Look forward to the end of the video and further discussions.