Talking Hearthstone with ElkY
The PokerStars Pro joins us to discuss if Hearthstone can get bigger than poker, Aaron Paul, the Global Poker League and much more.
You read my piece about your balancing of eSports and poker – what were your thoughts on it?
ElkY: I thought it was definitely an interesting article, as those two disciplines are merging ever closer and growing in the same direction, even if poker could seem to be lagging behind a bit in that aspect. However, as you stated later on, financial gain was never my main motivation, and as much as I still love poker, and how demanding it is to compete at a high level on both fronts, those are really the two main things in my life at the moment. Balance is also a key point that I think you might have been missing, as most poker players would now admit that they aren’t playing poker 24/7 and need some time to pursue other personal projects. Also the fact that poker and eSports, especially Hearthstone, have so much in common definitely helps time wise.
What are the differences between being sponsored for eSports vs poker? Is there a bigger fan base for one than the other?
ElkY: It’s difficult to say, because naturally my poker fan base is much bigger as it has been my main activity for the past 10 years. Another factor making it hard to gauge is the fact that the eSports community is much younger and it makes it much more active on all social medias. I still think eSports as a whole is bigger, especially if you include all the different games, because Hearthstone, StarCraft, CS:GO and League of Legends are definitely much bigger than all the NLHE, PLO and mixed games players. I think poker is an absolutely fantastic game, but up until very recently, content for fans wasn't up to par to the experience playing it. It’s starting to change a bit with Twitch, EPT Live, GPL and all, but still, the game is usually much more fun being played than being watched, and it has an effect on the fan base.
"Hearthstone wont be as big as poker"
Do you think Hearthstone will one day have bigger prize pools than EPT-level events?
ElkY: As much as the game is growing and eSports as a whole, it is still quite unlikely seeing as all the money from most eSports tournaments is coming from sponsors (except DOTA2 TI and few others), and not from players buying in into the tournament. It would depend on the different editors stance on it, but I doubt we will see thousands of HS players ponying up €5,000 in the near future. I believe this fundamental difference in how tournaments are funded will prevent Hearthstone having similar prize-pool tournaments to poker for the near future at least.
Is it more important for you to master Hearthstone, or are you more motivated by playing games that keep you excited and entertained?
ElkY: It’s both! Mastering a game is really exciting, especially one as complex as Hearthstone, and it’s a huge motivation. Of course, the fact that the game is very entertaining is a huge plus. Hearthstone is quite a unique game though, as it allows me to be competitive without being one of the very best at the time being. Don’t get me wrong, mastering the game and being one of the best is definitely my goal, but it helps to enter a tournament knowing you could still win without as much experience. For example, in my first tournament with Team Liquid, back in November at Seat Story Cup, I was leading 2-0 against the recent World Champion and was one card away from snatching victory, even though he was at the time (and still is) a much better and accomplished player than I am.
What skills do poker players bring to Hearthstone, and what is unique about the game that poker doesn’t prepare you for?
ElkY: Poker players bring their analytical minds, and mathematical skills regarding odds of different outcomes. We also bring hand-reading skills and a bit of psychology, so we can guess which cards opponents have in their hands depending on some of the play they made (in certain situations of course, not all the time).
Things that poker might not prepare us for that well would be the fact that even though combinations and possibilities are limitless in poker, most of them have similar values (most of the time in NL Hold’em, any flush or straight combo would have the same value as it’s so unlikely for your opponent to be holding it). In Hearthstone, you have to factor all the cards in the game that your opponent could have, and play around the most likely and potent ones accordingly. I would also think that even though there is definitely such a thing as tournament strategy in poker, it seems like every hand plays much more individually, with the decision you made previously having a non-existent to mild effect on the following hand, whereas in Hearthstone, a game plays with the same cards as resources. It's not because you had A-A and K-K already that you can’t get those cards dealt again in the tournament, whereas in Hearthstone you are limited to one or two copies of each card, and if you use them, they are gone from that particular game.
"I give away less info in the GPL"
You've already played a lot on Twitch giving away your information, but how has the experience been different for the Global Poker League?
ElkY: I've only played one heads-up game where I defeated Jungleman, who is considered one of the best heads-up NL players in the world, 2 to 1. There were some technical problems but it was really fun to play it. The main difference being that obviously it's a show of its own, whereas on my own Twitch channel I’m kind of in charge of entertaining the viewers, educating them, interacting or whatever we want. So it's a lot different in regard to the responsibility I have, but also in regard to the freedom of talk. In general I wouldn't want to give away my strategy too much because I think in those games it will be listened to by the teams, but I doubt Jungleman and the Berlin Bears really took it that seriously to begin with. GPL is more of a competition where we are speaking participants as opposed to a personal stream.
Given a lot of the GPL has a lot of people who have never streamed before, do you think your previous Twitch experience was an advantage?
ElkY: I might be more comfortable talking to the audience and it would be an advantage for my image, but the GPL has such great and smart poker players, I doubt that it will give me an edge in the poker game at all.
"Aaron Paul will be great for poker"
What are your thoughts on Aaron Paul joining the GPL? Doesn't it go against the 'elite sport' message of the GPL?
ElkY: I think it's a great thing for the GPL, as exposure for the league really is the number one goal I believe. As much as I love Bill Perkins and he's a great guy, you can't really say that he's on the level of most of the league, which is completely fine. So once you are letting team managers pick amateur players in love with the game, I have no problem with it. GPL is supposed to be a show, with most of the best poker players in the world, and Aaron Paul would be awesome for that show. Also, there are some of the best or most popular players who have already opted out of the GPL (Negreanu, Ivey, Esfandiari etc), so it was already not able to be the best of the best.
What are your overall thoughts on the GPL so far? What has worked and what hasn't yet?
ElkY: GPL is a great initiative and really fun to play. I think what is working is the team element, which is bringing lots of excitement, and having teammates supporting each other while rotating. Addition of the webcams, as it has been the tradition since the beginning of poker on Twitch, is also something great. Huge entertainment value for the fans. There has been pretty good hype from the draft too, so that's really good.
What is a bit disappointing is the format; 6-max and heads-up are fun games, but is it really ‘sportifying’ poker to simply add a webcam to a game format that has been played on PokerStars for 10+ years? It’s only the start, though, and we have to see what will happen in the play-offs and finals. Besides that I think, even though the task at hand seems huge, the GPL is clearly lacking preparation and there have been lots of technical problems, as well as production mishaps, with tests being done while live, webcam of casters appearing, disappearing, moving around, sixth card showing up out of nowhere... I also think they could have picked players who could bring new communities to the league, especially as wildcards. The only one in the entire league is Aaron Paul, and even though it's awesome to have him with us, it seems like a bit short out of the 24 wildcard spots available in the GPL.
Thanks ElkY, good luck in Hearthstone and the GPL.
