[Closed] can i fold qq vs nit here

Hi,

villain is mega nitty. So I'd probably wouldn't even 3-bet him oop, because if he 4-bets you are against KK+ only imo. So your 3-bet is a bluff-3-bet.
Calling a 4-bet oop is deffo a leak. There are some articles around.

As played: If he bets flop, I doubt such a nit folds KK or AA here.

Best regards,
Anin

what is his steal?

Basically he looks extremely nitty but he is also unknown which is the worst combination ♦ (as you can´t read his FoldTo3b and 4b tendentions). Without any stats, I would say that from late position some nitts try to steal a bit so that they compensate their general nitty play (=not defending blinds) with some steals from LP. That justifies 3betting for value even against him.

- I don´t like calling OOP, as such nitt will never invest money with worse hand post flop. So I definitely 3 bet.
- Never call 4bet OOP with QQ. It´s terrible leak.
- 3bet/shove looks like it is not a big mistake, because QQ in blinds vs CO looks like a monster ♦ . However against such a super nitty player, I don´t like to ship QQ pre as well. Without any reads, you should give him QQ+, AK 4betting range which does not give you equity good enough to ship. You also have zero fold equity vs him. His 4bet is just too strong.

SO - I think the best is to 3bet/fold preflop.

(In practice, I 3bet/shove preflop almost always ´cause I am a gambler, muhuhehe ♦ )

I generally dont have steal stats on my HUD. I know I should fold but its kinda diffiuclt to fold here.

what did he have?

aa

Hard spot, I tend to be very aggresive, so it's hard for me to fold, but I have to respect the stats, if in 100 hands he only raised 4% of the hands, I don't think he is going crazy with weaker hands than QQ here.

So I'd probably wouldn't even 3-bet him oop

AninIII How will you play postflop? What exactly do expect postflop to happen, on what boards what actions will you take?

Originally posted by i5bet72o
I generally dont have steal stats on my HUD.

Put it there It is the percentage of hands he opens from CO, BU and SB in case nobody raised before him. You will see how much you will improve in 3bet decisions preflop.

On FR generally, if he has STEAL 35%+, you can comfortably 3bet A7s from blinds vs CO/BU. In case he has steal below 20%, I rather muck it. It really gives VERY usefull information on player tendencies. Together with FoldTo3b stat, it is perfect tool to decide when to 3bet PF and when not.

AninIII How will you play postflop? What exactly do expect postflop to happen, on what boards what actions will you take?

I tend to play wa/wb against such nitty players even with JJ, QQ and sometimes KK.
Meaning the following:
Preflop: Just call to keep your range wide, to have Tx in your range (just an example for that particular flop). You let yourself more possibilities to outplay villain postflop.
Flop: ch/c to represent Tx.
Turn: ch and see how he reacts. If he bets that K, I'd just fold.
River: If he checked turn behind I'd play ch/c or nevertheless ch/f if this villain bets.

That way you loose the minimum.
Dunno if there is a better way against him oop.

Originally posted by AninIII

AninIII How will you play postflop? What exactly do expect postflop to happen, on what boards what actions will you take?

I tend to play wa/wb against such nitty players even with JJ, QQ and sometimes KK.
Meaning the following:
Preflop: Just call to keep your range wide, to have Tx in your range (just an example for that particular flop). You let yourself more possibilities to outplay villain postflop.
Flop: ch/c to represent Tx.
Turn: ch and see how he reacts. If he bets that K, I'd just fold.
River: If he checked turn behind I'd play ch/c or nevertheless ch/f if this villain bets.

That way you loose the minimum.
Dunno if there is a better way against him oop.

that´s interesting. I like flatting IP with a similar logic of underreping your hand (eg 3x call low board with KK IP, let him barrel weaker hands). However here OOP against very tight opponent, I think this line is basically huge EV- , while you are folding on any Kxx or Axx board (even if he has worse hands and just Cbets) and you are passively calling low boards where he may (i) only bet there if he hits monster hand and (ii) make you fold on any K or A turn...

you are folding so often, win the pot really seldomly and if you win the pot, it will be small pot.

All in all - I find it much better to 3bet preflop (he does not necessarily have premium hand from CO ) and then either make disciplined fold to 4bet or spew out and ship it pre ♠_cool: ♠_o:

♠_cool:

Originally posted by Cornie4ever

Originally posted by AninIII

AninIII How will you play postflop? What exactly do expect postflop to happen, on what boards what actions will you take?

I tend to play wa/wb against such nitty players even with JJ, QQ and sometimes KK.
Meaning the following:
Preflop: Just call to keep your range wide, to have Tx in your range (just an example for that particular flop). You let yourself more possibilities to outplay villain postflop.
Flop: ch/c to represent Tx.
Turn: ch and see how he reacts. If he bets that K, I'd just fold.
River: If he checked turn behind I'd play ch/c or nevertheless ch/f if this villain bets.

That way you loose the minimum.
Dunno if there is a better way against him oop.

that´s interesting. I like flatting IP with a similar logic of underreping your hand (eg 3x call low board with KK IP, let him barrel weaker hands). However here OOP against very tight opponent, I think this line is basically huge EV- , while you are folding on any Kxx or Axx board (even if he has worse hands and just Cbets) and you are passively calling low boards where he may (i) only bet there if he hits monster hand and (ii) make you fold on any K or A turn...

you are folding so often, win the pot really seldomly and if you win the pot, it will be small pot.

All in all - I find it much better to 3bet preflop (he does not necessarily have premium hand from CO ) and then either make disciplined fold to 4bet or spew out and ship it pre ♠_cool: ♠_o:

♠_cool:

You are right what you say.
I just wanted to make a point, that I don't like to 3-bet QQ and then fold to a 4-bet because it would turn your hand into a bluff (you could do that with 72o, too) but neither to ship against such a nit.
So you have to ask yourself: What do you want to achieve by 3-betting such a villain oop? The answer is ofc that he calls.
BUT: Then you play a huge pot nevertheless oop, which will be very hard against a competent player.
And additionally you don't know exactly where you stand, as he may sometimes just flat KK, AA ip.

Ha, so I got it ---> We fold preflop!!! ♦

General rule - don´t play motherfckn´nits OOP

I also 3bet/fold here.
As mentioned several times calling the openraise OOP will not really get you in good spots as you're folding a lot and the opponent is rarely bluffing.

Once he 4bets he always has KK/AA imo, so if you were a bit deeper I'd contemplate calling this purely for setvalue - yes, even OOP.
If he had even a slightly looser range this would be a leak, but when his range is that defined you're basically guaranteed to get his stack in case you hit.
For 100BB it's simply a fold though.