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[Closed] NL100 SH - AJs tp multiway

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Tim64
Joined: 03.11.2008

Grabbed by Holdem Manager
NL Holdem $1(BB) Replayer
SB ($132)
BB ($123)
Hero ($106)
UTG+1 ($112)
CO ($133)
BTN ($100)

Dealt to Hero A♦ J♦

Hero raises to $3.50, fold, fold, fold, SB calls $3, BB calls $2.50

FLOP ($10.50) 4♦ J♥ 3♣

SB bets $4, BB calls $4, Hero raises to $15, SB folds, BB calls $11

TURN ($44.50) 4♦ J♥ 3♣ 6♥

BB bets $32, Hero folds

BB wins $42.30

sb is 25/9/4 127 hands; BB is a regular: 20/16/3 after 238 hands. is my fold on the turn too nitty? seems like we are representing at least tp here and when villain calls our raise and leads out on the turn I think he can beat that.
Does it make sense to raise on the flop? I think I am raising for value here.


6 replies
Purity
Joined: 28.01.2008

I don't like raising here
> You valuetown yourself against better hands and lose value from worse because they will fold

There is pretty much 1 draw for 56 and that's it. Against everything else u are in way ahead/way behind situation and should just call.

Also your percieved range is really strong comming from UTG + raising into 2 players so there is really no way to get called by worse hands.


Tim64 Topic starter
Tim64
Joined: 03.11.2008

Okay, thanks for that. I definitely understand what you are saying.
I guess the problem for me is that my hand seems vulnerable. So, for example, if I just call here and the turn is A,K, or Q and SB bets again small and BB calls, what then?

:f_confused:


Purity
Joined: 28.01.2008

Well a K or a Q wouldn't worry me too much since I don't see how that would hit SB or BB their range. I guess QJ and KJ are the only ones they could have.

I think if SB donks here he either has a set or he has a PP like 77/88 that bets for information because he doesn't like check/calling.

So after calling flop I would probably always call a turnbet aswel no matter what cards and probably fold to a riverbet since I don't see a worse Jx firing 3 streets for value and I also don't believe he's bluffing for 3 streets in this spot. So when faced with 3 barrels I think we can safely assume we are beat.

( if he makes this smallish bets on turn + river like he did here on the flop then I don't think u can fold anywhere )

Atleast that's how I would have played this one =)


Interesting, i'd be inclined to raise flop for value also vs Jx hands that cant fold. Not sure about turn either i think i might fold too. Really confusing hand looking forward to hear judge's oppinion on this


VzLOM
Joined: 23.12.2007

Ill watch his donk% . Generally i dont like raise too much cos we get called only by JK,JQ, maybe 56 (if its in his range )


Bierbaer
Joined: 27.05.2005

Ah it's really close on the flop.
As the previous posters mentioned a raise will look very strong, but so will a call.
He made it pretty small, so I'd raise to get some value from worse Jx and also to protect against the few outs they could have: even if they have a worse J you won't win very much on future streets by calling compared to raising.
They still know you have a hand and TT would probably be too weak to call on the flop, so they can c/f worse Jx on the turn (theoretically, I don't think a 25/9 is necessarily capable of that).
Still, even if he does call a barrel on the turn he might just have called a flopraise anyway and he is ususally not calling again on the river in any case.

Since they still have 5outs+ in case they have a pair (except for Jx ofc) and 8 with an OESD (which is unlikely but possible) and because I don't expect them to ever bluff3bet on the flop I think raising the flop is slightly better than calling.

On the turn I also have no idea what he coul possibly have, but to me it smells like a set or some kind of weird 2pair/straight. I just can't see him bluffing in this spot and with Jx he does probably not lead out on the turn because our range is so strong (he has to be afraid of AJ,QQ+), so imo nh.


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