Ask me anything about 6-max: pleno1's coaching thread

hello!

first off, i'm a FR player nl25 zoom, massively overrolled and going to move up soon enough

anyway, i have a soft spot for unorthodox lines, and since i've seen you mention min4bets i thought i'd suck out on some more wisdom.

best spot to do that is usually bu vs blinds? what about min4betting sbvbb? i suppose that mostly really sucks due to oop
what could our min4betting range look like vs unknown? blockers and cbet ~1/3 most boards, what does our usual hand plan looks like?
(actually i have no idea what i'm talking about when i say "most boards")

also what do you think about min3bets and min5bets? i think these are also some interesting areas

Originally posted by pleno1

Originally posted by Deomedes
I am a 6max NL4 player myself but i found only examples in Full ring games for that concept. Either way i still got my answer, SPR is a good tool but trying too much to apply it in any situation is just ridiculous.
Thnx for your time and of course, i will take the offer and post some stats when i got the time.

Cool.

So i am an NL4 6max player and these are my stats in 70000 hands, not much i know but i think that they might be enough to show the big leaks in my game. I hope the stats i decide to post are helpful.

consistently reading this thread is making me find my AHA moment in poker ♦

Originally posted by Buletts

Originally posted by pleno1

Originally posted by Buletts
Hi Pleno1

Is there any chance you could include your HUD configuration for download or give some sort of Idea of the ranges for the colours on the stats.

I have not been playing for a year or two so wouldn't know where to start with ranges on the stats at the minute.

Thanks in advance for any advice you could give on this.

Graham.

Hey,

Okay, a lot of people asking for this. On the weekend I get another computer back and will make a big post about the hud, all the advantages and what things you can potentially add and/or take away and then put up the configs and all screenshots for the HUD.

Hope thats fine bud.

Cheers pal, that would be great.

Great thread by the way, you have re-ignited my interest in 6-max after having to take some time off due to other commitments.

Graham

That is great to hear

Originally posted by peche025
Hey Patrick, holmeboy's post reminded me of something I wanted to ask.

I was wanting to ask your opinions of cb sizing is 3b pots on different board textures oop.

f.e. we're sb and 3b btn

board is dry,

I usually cb 1/2 OTT cb 1/2 OTR cb 1/2 (jam)

but how should we change the sizing on wet boards or mono boards?

On wet boards, f.e. Q :spade:9 :spade:7 is pot flop overbet jam the turn a good line?

Hey Peche,

It depends on the player, if we can set a turn jam up vs a player with a high WTSD then it's really good as on Q97ss it looks like a very drawy board and villain will basically never fold a Q and may even hero call with a 9.

In general we should be cbetting SUPER small, I'm going to go on to abit why later today when I go over overbetting the turn, so watch out for that!

Originally posted by ThePirateSword
Do you think it's possible to beat NL200 6-max 12 tables? and what winrate?

Sure, I played NL200 6max with 12 tables for like 40k hands, I won at 9bb/100 and 7bb/100 ev wise. I think players don't really put you in many tough spots at NL200 and with standard good play I think it is quite possible to win at a good win rate.

It completely depends on the player though of course.

Originally posted by Maloco87
I set myself up a Hud just like yours last night but havn't played any poker yet using it

Im just wondering since im only playing 0.01/0.02 and 0.02/0.05 6 max, is there an need for me to have a Hud like this at these stakes?

also huds like this just clutter up the table and its hard to see the other players stack sizes and bets etc does this matter?

Hey,

You can still pick some stuff up from the HUD for sure, using the positional stats will be good, also the 3betting/squeeze and fold to 3bet stats will remain very important.

For micro stakes less people fold pre flop so its a lot more of a post flop game, so I would adjust the HUD slightly, perhaps put in WTSD, and turn cbet/ fold to turn cbet and then we can make better decisions post flop.

Regarding tables being "messy" it completely depends on the player, I cannot play if my HUD is ugly, I just can't concentrate, but for others it simply doesn't matter.

If it is clogging your screen up then I would suggest (if getting a monitor is not possible) to play less tables or use a more basic HUD.

HUD's are great but if you don't use them right then you may aswell not use one at all and free up screen space.

Having a good monitor is absolutely imperative though, I know it can seem like a lot of money, but for a small investment it will help you so much and is alot less tiring than looking at a laptop all night, especially if you work in an office job where you're infront of a PC all day.

Originally posted by gadget51
Hi, just a quick question for you if I may?

At mid-stakes NL 6 max, are there any souls left, because you seem to have them all!? ♠_cool:

By the way, this thread is epic!

Run good,

Mal.

Ofc Mal!

Ha, most definitely there are still some people who like to battle. At the moment on Zoom people are really just letting me have my own way but there is one reg who is super OOL vs me, I played a really fun hand vs him yesterday.

Poker Stars $200.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players - View hand 1836495
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

BTN: $319.46 - VPIP: 9, PFR: 6, 3B: 0, AF: 0.0, Hands: 34
SB: $226.40 - VPIP: 24, PFR: 17, 3B: 9, AF: 6.0, Hands: 259
BB: $203.37 - VPIP: 35, PFR: 31, 3B: 15, AF: 1.9, Hands: 91
UTG: $105.00 - VPIP: 18, PFR: 18, 3B: 33, AF: 0.0, Hands: 22
MP: $111.83 - VPIP: 11, PFR: 11, 3B: 11, AF: 0.0, Hands: 19
Hero (CO): $484.86 - VPIP: 25, PFR: 20, 3B: 12, AF: 3.0, Hands: 17404

Pre Flop: ($3.00) Hero is CO with 7 5
2 folds, Hero raises to $6, 2 folds, BB raises to $21, Hero calls $15

Flop: ($43.00) K 6 9 (2 players)
BB bets $24.00, Hero calls $24

Turn: ($91.00) K (2 players)
BB bets $52.00, Hero raises to $104, BB folds

So the turn is actually a really good card for him, I basically have to fold all ym draws now, and I don't have a bunch of Kx. By min raising not only do I make his life absolutely hell with anything that isn't Kx, but I also make him fold all of his bluffing range that continued on the turn which will be so annoying for him and is most of his range that I should normally "not be able to do anything about" because of POT to STACK ratio.

Originally posted by rogervieri

Originally posted by pleno1

Originally posted by rogervieri

Originally posted by pleno1
HUD

I think it is SUPER important to have a good HUD. In the past the main problem was that people didn't know how to use one properly, now the main problem is people try to use it TOO much and put TOO much information on their HUD.

You need to have a HUD that is very easy for you to use and set out correctly, having too many stats does not make sense. It also differs depending on how many tables you play etc.

Here is the HUD that I use at the moment, which I really really like.

Name
Total Hands

- - - - - - - - -

Tot 3bet
Fold to 3bet
Squeeze

- - - - - - - - -

Flop Cbet
Fold to flop Cbet

- - - - - - -

EP PFR
MP PFR
CO PFR
BTN PFR
SB PFR

- - - - - - -

Tot vpip
Tot pfr

- - - - - - - -

Btn steal
Fold to btn steal

I then have all my stats coloured perfectly. The lighter the colours the more passive the guy is, the more red the colour the more good/aggro he us and the more purple he is the more of an absolute maniac he is.

Here is a picture of it in my HEM

not so much postflop stats like WTSD/WT$D, fold to check/raise flop IP/OOP etc.

Do you make the decisions based on game-flow/reads rather than stats?

thanks mate
Rogervieri

Yeh, most post flop stuff comes from game flow and notes that I make, although of course for WTSD etc I just hover over my HUD.

As you can probably see from my posts in the thread I'm very much an advocate that 6max no limit is heavily impacted by a good pre flop game plan.

Hi, sorry to continue on the point, but I recently bought HM2 via Pokerstrategy promotion, and I'm trying to set up "the best HUD"

could you at least tell me how you benefit to add the PFR's per position in your HUD?? isn't it easier to have them as a pop-up?? or do you do it on purpose to immediately and quickly see their PFR per position.

EP PFR
MP PFR
CO PFR
BTN PFR
SB PFR

again: could you explain how you benefit from this info (how do you exploit this?)

Basically the first thing I look at when somebody opens is their pfr from each position, vs UTG etc I can make a really quick decision that will usually be right. If I have to use a pop up each time I may get lazy or not checj, I generally avoid ever using a pop up, especially pre flop and having the positional stats there for me to use is the best thing I have ever done regarding using a HUD.

I 3bet a lot vs UTG/UTG+1 so having the stats are very important, it also saves me buy ins for example if I have QQ and guy opens UTG, if I have to look at a pop up maybe I just 3b/5b, but if I have it there and see he opens 9% or something then I will just flat.

Also in Zoom if I am in the cut off and I see that the button has a low pfr from the button then I can raise like 95o here profitably but if I don't have it in front of me then I will just sigh, not checking a pop up, 95, fold and miss a +ev spot, even if it is very close.

Originally posted by Vinny80
Hey Pleno,

Very nice thread. You mentioned earlier 3betting more on the flop against players that raises board where they don't rep much. Do you mind that 3bet semi-bluff where I commit myself if vilain shoves? Vilain raises cbet over 20% of the time (and folds to cbet only 27% overall). Even against a tight stackoff range, my equity is ok, but when I add the money I will win often when he bets/folds, I think my line is +EV ... Do you agree?

Poker Stars, $1/$2 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

BTN: $282.48 (141.2 bb)
SB: $200 (100 bb)
BB: $258.20 (129.1 bb)
Hero (UTG): $200 (100 bb)
MP: $200 (100 bb)
CO: $292.60 (146.3 bb)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q J
Hero raises to $6, 2 folds, BTN calls $6, 2 folds

Flop: ($15) T 9 5 (2 players)
Hero bets $11, BTN raises to $32, Hero raises to $80, BTN raises to $276.48 and is all-in, Hero calls $114 and is all-in

Hey Vinny,

So weird, but I just played a hand really similar to this, one second, will find

Poker Stars $200.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players - View hand 1836501
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

BTN: $282.86 - VPIP: 27, PFR: 21, 3B: 6, AF: 2.8, Hands: 142
SB: $147.96 - VPIP: 33, PFR: 11, 3B: 25, AF: 0.0, Hands: 9
Hero (BB): $260.96 - VPIP: 25, PFR: 20, 3B: 12, AF: 3.0, Hands: 17404
UTG: $100.00 - VPIP: 18, PFR: 18, 3B: 8, AF: 0.0, Hands: 82
MP: $212.41 - VPIP: 24, PFR: 17, 3B: 9, AF: 6.0, Hands: 259
CO: $263.83 - VPIP: 28, PFR: 20, 3B: 9, AF: 1.6, Hands: 459

Pre Flop: ($3.00) Hero is BB with Q J
3 folds, BTN raises to $5, 1 fold, Hero calls $3

Flop: ($11.00) 6 T 9 (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $7.88, Hero raises to $24, BTN raises to $59.89, Hero raises to $136.78, BTN folds

Your play is very good, on the flop he only reps sets, but what are we going to do if we call and turn bricks? We're basically hoping to turn a straight and have no initiative which can never be good, he will also flat sets decent % of the time.

When he does have sets we have 8 outs twice which is totally fine and not terrible equity at all, he may also r/f a weak show down hand.

Raising instead of shoving is good as if we did have a bluff here then it means we're not committing all of our stack and we can always induce with the top of our range. As shoving here makes villain play perfectly vs us, i.e he will call what he raised for value, and fold what he raised as a bluff.

Originally posted by Tomaloc
hello!

first off, i'm a FR player nl25 zoom, massively overrolled and going to move up soon enough

anyway, i have a soft spot for unorthodox lines, and since i've seen you mention min4bets i thought i'd suck out on some more wisdom.

best spot to do that is usually bu vs blinds? what about min4betting sbvbb? i suppose that mostly really sucks due to oop
what could our min4betting range look like vs unknown? blockers and cbet ~1/3 most boards, what does our usual hand plan looks like?
(actually i have no idea what i'm talking about when i say "most boards")

also what do you think about min3bets and min5bets? i think these are also some interesting areas

Uh oh, FR player ITT ♠_evil: ♦ ♦

Min 4betting btn vs sb and SB vs BB are TOTALLY different and shouldn't be mistaken.

First of all, my favourite poker formula..

POSITION + SKILL = PROFIT

When we min 4bet on the button vs SB we entice his bluffing range to commit more money to the pot pre flop and play post flop which is so difficult./ If you 3bet K4s as a bluff and make a bad call and play a 4bet pot OOP it is going to be impossible to show a profit.

If you are in position then you can do so many more things and take initiative etc.

4bets OOP should be sized bigger, I actually made a similar mistake myself yesterday where I 4bet small oop. Lets see the hand..

Poker Stars $200.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players - View hand 1836503
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

BTN: $197.20 - VPIP: 18, PFR: 15, 3B: 8, AF: 0.0, Hands: 67
SB: $372.78 - VPIP: 15, PFR: 4, 3B: 0, AF: 0.0, Hands: 26
BB: $238.80 - VPIP: 15, PFR: 8, 3B: 6, AF: 5.0, Hands: 72
UTG: $468.56 - VPIP: 27, PFR: 21, 3B: 6, AF: 2.8, Hands: 142
Hero (MP): $566.00 - VPIP: 25, PFR: 20, 3B: 12, AF: 3.0, Hands: 17404
CO: $383.52 - VPIP: 23, PFR: 23, 3B: 14, AF: 3.2, Hands: 104

Pre Flop: ($3.00) Hero is MP with K 8
1 fold, Hero raises to $6, CO raises to $20, 3 folds, Hero raises to $41, CO calls $21

Flop: ($85.00) 3 K T (2 players)
Hero bets $39.00, CO calls $39

Turn: ($163.00) 4 (2 players)
Hero bets $67.00, CO calls $67

River: ($297.00) 7 (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $236.52, Hero calls $236.52

Ok, so I make a mistake pre flop and flop top pair.

On this board he can call me SUPER wide, so I bet less than half pot to induce some bad calls/floats.

On the turn I feel he has a lot of bad straight draws and weak showdown hands, if I bet big he will call kx+ and maybe some 10x but even then he can definitely "hero fold" so I bet around 1/3rd pot to make sure all of his blufficalling range continues to the river.

On the river he has FAR more combos of straight draws than he does 10x, so I make a quite easy c/call on the river. I was actually coaching somebody who was sweating me here and he was pretty OWOWOWOWOW about the hand, but it shows that understanding players RANGES is the most important thing in poker.

Originally posted by Deomedes

Originally posted by pleno1

Originally posted by Deomedes
I am a 6max NL4 player myself but i found only examples in Full ring games for that concept. Either way i still got my answer, SPR is a good tool but trying too much to apply it in any situation is just ridiculous.
Thnx for your time and of course, i will take the offer and post some stats when i got the time.

Cool.

So i am an NL4 6max player and these are my stats in 70000 hands, not much i know but i think that they might be enough to show the big leaks in my game. I hope the stats i decide to post are helpful.

Hey Deomedes,

Cool name btw, what does it mean?

First of all you seem a little bit too tight, this is probably because of your low 3bet stat, if you increased it to say 8 from 5 it would naturally make you open up your game a little bit.

Watch this video that I made about 3betting from the button vs cut off and maybe look at applying it to your game?

Your turn PFR seems super small as well, if you increased your VPIP/PFR from here you would be a lot more aggro/playing more hands, for example, just look out for the Button, if he is a complete nit then open up a similar range to the button. I.e open 97o, it's fine, if anything it will get more respect from the blinds because its not a "button open" and they will fold hands like 910, k9 that dominate us.

Your win rate in the blinds is actually good, it adds up to less than 40 which is nice. You should however be winning more from the button, maybe look at 4betting vs loose 3bet steals (read above about min 4betting) and lookm to widen your range from the button, but tighten it vs guys who 3bet too much.

Originally posted by dwyt84
consistently reading this thread is making me find my AHA moment in poker ♦

That's really nice to hear

.

hehe thanks. I just have to readjust and 5b shove everybody 4bets vs me, it's alot more fun this way I'm inducing you all to let me spew 5b all the time! wiiiiiiiiii

Hey , great thread
what do u think is good win rate / sample size to move the one limit up
I play Nl 25 $ i i tried to move up to nl 50 but i was runinig bad (arround -1.5 bb 80000 hnds) and it was big difference lot less acction on tables ,lot more regs so i decided to move down and work more on my game (at Nl 25 i am arronud +3 bb over 200k hnds)
best regards from Croatia

Over-betting the turn

At the moment people are regularly 3 barrelling in lots of spots, which is of course totally fine and puts pressure on, generally I've experienced fish getting very stubborn and even regs calling the third barrel at a super high frequency, so I bring to you guys a little analysis about over-betting the turn.

Here is the example hand:

Poker Stars $200.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players - View hand 1836642
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

[

Pre Flop: ($3.00) Hero is BTN with Q 8
3 folds, Hero raises to $4, 1 fold, BB calls $2

Flop: ($9.00) 5 J J (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $4.21, BB calls $4.21

Turn: ($17.42) 9 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $27.00, BB folds

Final Pot: $17.42
Hero wins $16.64
(Rake: $0.78)

So in this hand.

Pre flop: Make a standard raise to 2bb on the button. He will defend ALOT of A highs, some Broadway cards, some suited connectors and pocket pairs.

Flop: I bet the flop to get his suited connectors to fold, his k highs to fold and to put pressure on his range later in the hand. Because of HIS weak range I can bet less than 50% of the pot and should show an immediate profit.

Turn: On the turn the very best hand he should have is 88, all of his A highs may get stubborn, but when we over bet they are going to fold a massive amount of the time. I even pick up equity to go along with the overbet, but I genuinely think when I bet here he is just always folding unless he has Jx.

When we go large here on the turn we will get c/r bluffed close to 0% of the time, people just don't do it, so we take away the chance to be bluffed as well as making him fold almost his entire range.

Have a try guys

Originally posted by pleno1

Originally posted by Deomedes

Originally posted by pleno1

Originally posted by Deomedes
I am a 6max NL4 player myself but i found only examples in Full ring games for that concept. Either way i still got my answer, SPR is a good tool but trying too much to apply it in any situation is just ridiculous.
Thnx for your time and of course, i will take the offer and post some stats when i got the time.

Cool.

So i am an NL4 6max player and these are my stats in 70000 hands, not much i know but i think that they might be enough to show the big leaks in my game. I hope the stats i decide to post are helpful.

Hey Deomedes,

Cool name btw, what does it mean?

First of all you seem a little bit too tight, this is probably because of your low 3bet stat, if you increased it to say 8 from 5 it would naturally make you open up your game a little bit.

Watch this video that I made about 3betting from the button vs cut off and maybe look at applying it to your game?

Your turn PFR seems super small as well, if you increased your VPIP/PFR from here you would be a lot more aggro/playing more hands, for example, just look out for the Button, if he is a complete nit then open up a similar range to the button. I.e open 97o, it's fine, if anything it will get more respect from the blinds because its not a "button open" and they will fold hands like 910, k9 that dominate us.

Your win rate in the blinds is actually good, it adds up to less than 40 which is nice. You should however be winning more from the button, maybe look at 4betting vs loose 3bet steals (read above about min 4betting) and lookm to widen your range from the button, but tighten it vs guys who 3bet too much.

Thnx for the advice man, i will try to make the most out of it ! I have some work to do!
As for the name Deomedes, comes from Diomedes the mythological hero and Deo which means God also in Latin. I thought it was better sound that way. Thnx again man!

Originally posted by Deomedes

Originally posted by pleno1

Originally posted by Deomedes

Originally posted by pleno1

Originally posted by Deomedes
I am a 6max NL4 player myself but i found only examples in Full ring games for that concept. Either way i still got my answer, SPR is a good tool but trying too much to apply it in any situation is just ridiculous.
Thnx for your time and of course, i will take the offer and post some stats when i got the time.

Cool.

So i am an NL4 6max player and these are my stats in 70000 hands, not much i know but i think that they might be enough to show the big leaks in my game. I hope the stats i decide to post are helpful.

Hey Deomedes,

Cool name btw, what does it mean?

First of all you seem a little bit too tight, this is probably because of your low 3bet stat, if you increased it to say 8 from 5 it would naturally make you open up your game a little bit.

Watch this video that I made about 3betting from the button vs cut off and maybe look at applying it to your game?

Your turn PFR seems super small as well, if you increased your VPIP/PFR from here you would be a lot more aggro/playing more hands, for example, just look out for the Button, if he is a complete nit then open up a similar range to the button. I.e open 97o, it's fine, if anything it will get more respect from the blinds because its not a "button open" and they will fold hands like 910, k9 that dominate us.

Your win rate in the blinds is actually good, it adds up to less than 40 which is nice. You should however be winning more from the button, maybe look at 4betting vs loose 3bet steals (read above about min 4betting) and lookm to widen your range from the button, but tighten it vs guys who 3bet too much.

Thnx for the advice man, i will try to make the most out of it ! I have some work to do!
As for the name Deomedes, comes from Diomedes the mythological hero and Deo which means God also in Latin. I thought it was better sound that way. Thnx again man!

No problem man, best of luck <3

Cool name too ♠_cool:

Yeah think I will adjust my hud to that then or just make a new one that I will use for the micros

I have a 22" Tv that I have been thinking of hooking up to my laptop but I just dont have the space atm for a real grinding station, all that is in my plans though

thank you sir, i like ♦

Originally posted by pleno1
POSITION + SKILL = PROFIT

the better i get the more i agree

but what about the other questions

- what could our min4betting range look like vs unknown? blockers and cbet ~1/3 most boards, what does our usual hand plan looks like?
(actually i have no idea what i'm talking about when i say "most boards")
and do we min4bet our entire range for balancing and lulz or can we afford to play unbalanced sometimes? (not all the time) ♦

- what do you think about min3bets and min5bets? i think these are also some interesting areas