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Originally posted by outspan

Originally posted by Hahaownedlolz
I personally prefer Chubukov over Nash personally. My understanding of NASH is that you have to follow the chart 100% for it to be +EV. ofcourse you can use it under a certain bb like 12bb>. I've heard a lot of discussion about it though and many people claiming you do and many that you don't (have to push all the hands).

With Chubukov it's much more simple. People simply can't have an edge by calling your all ins if you push according to the chart.

Sounds very interesting. Where can I find Chubukov charts? I found this but don't know exactly how to use it.

http://www2.decf.berkeley.edu/~chubukov/rankings.html

Here is a full list of all hands. the shoving amount is in smallblinds. first row is the hand. Second number of hands that call you, hands that fold

This is how it works. It's made in a way that if your opponent can see your hole cards. that's why only 1 hand calls AA which is AA itself and that's why you can shove it an infinite amount of big blinds since he folds all other hands. It also assumes your opponent can call perfectly when he can see your hole cards. Both of those assumptions are obviously false and that's why you can shove even looser then the chart.

It's not very practical to use though. So you may want to make like your own chart. with like 1bb to -15 bb or something and the hands you can shove according to chubukov. or google it.. it's on a site i can't mention(not sure). I'll be making my own chart probably tonight or tomorrow so i'll post it here when it's done if you want.

Originally posted by sirilidion
Just a noob qeustion from someone that might be intrested in playing HU SnGs. how do you adapt to different playingstyles for viliian

against any1 who is too tight start playing like a maniac(but a smart one so when they call they have it-stop barelling!)
also against tight opponents u should raise every button and cbet almost every flop(especially if they are fit or fold)

against loose opponents u should be focused on value betting

that should give u a start but they are simply a lot of things to say
it would take me 10 pages

i totaly disagree..
1) dont be scared money
2) play tight, esp at low blinds
3) dont call flops with 3rd pair or something, as they bet turn and u have to fold
4) do not slowplay good hands that can be outdrawn and slowplay nuts.

this is for playing a maniac btw.

Originally posted by Sandwind

Originally posted by sirilidion
Just a noob qeustion from someone that might be intrested in playing HU SnGs. how do you adapt to different playingstyles for viliian

against any1 who is too tight start playing like a maniac(but a smart one so when they call they have it-stop barelling!)
also against tight opponents u should raise every button and cbet almost every flop(especially if they are fit or fold)

against loose opponents u should be focused on value betting

that should give u a start but they are simply a lot of things to say
it would take me 10 pages

Value bet more and bluff less vs callingstations
Don't ever try to out bluff a maniac. just valuebet. and try to trap him.
cbet alot more vs fit or fold & tight players.

Basically you try to do the opposite in terms of agressive/passiveness.. Not always ofcourse. Imo loose/passive is probably the only style that simply doesn't work. You can play LAG, Loose/passive and TAG though.

There's so much to write about this though. But i don't really have time atm to explain what i said more.

Originally posted by Tulabas
i totaly disagree..
1) dont be scared money
2) play tight, esp at low blinds
3) dont call flops with 3rd pair or something, as they bet turn and u have to fold
4) do not slowplay good hands that can be outdrawn and slowplay nuts.

this is for playing a maniac btw.

lol man i am a maniac and i would crush u hu
in theory your strategy is good but it is so straightforward that it s simply insanely easy to guess it and to beat it
maniacs make money because u fold to much so u should take care of that problem first

maniac is loosing style and they dont make money in long run agains good oponents

Originally posted by Sandwind

Originally posted by Tulabas
i totaly disagree..
1) dont be scared money
2) play tight, esp at low blinds
3) dont call flops with 3rd pair or something, as they bet turn and u have to fold
4) do not slowplay good hands that can be outdrawn and slowplay nuts.

this is for playing a maniac btw.

lol man i am a maniac and i would crush u hu
in theory your strategy is good but it is so straightforward that it s simply insanely easy to guess it and to beat it
maniacs make money because u fold to much so u should take care of that problem first

Theres not much that makes me happier than when i end up against a maniac id happily take them all day long

Originally posted by Tulabas
maniac is loosing style and they dont make money in long run agains good oponents

it makes money against the right players

Originally posted by ExternalUseOnly

Originally posted by Sandwind

Originally posted by Tulabas
i totaly disagree..
1) dont be scared money
2) play tight, esp at low blinds
3) dont call flops with 3rd pair or something, as they bet turn and u have to fold
4) do not slowplay good hands that can be outdrawn and slowplay nuts.

this is for playing a maniac btw.

lol man i am a maniac and i would crush u hu
in theory your strategy is good but it is so straightforward that it s simply insanely easy to guess it and to beat it
maniacs make money because u fold to much so u should take care of that problem first

Theres not much that makes me happier than when i end up against a maniac id happily take them all day long

u are very lucky right?
just try to play a maniac when u are card dead ♦

Wonderful thread very very helpful..thread of the year i think. ♠_biggrin:

All the discussion re: playing styles is completely useless. TAG, LAG, and maniac are all viable styles in HU. You shouldn't be focusing on one "style" in particular, instead, identify your opponents tendancies, and exploit them. If this makes you play like a maniac vs some opponents, so be it.

i.e. I played 3 tables NL50 today vs a reg. He was calling a lot of cbets on dry boards and donking the turn on safe cards, so I started checking behind and raising turn bets about half of the time. When he adjusted, I started cbetting more flops again, and barrelling rivers.

HU is all about adjustments, not about specific styles.

With all that out of the way, I do have a question.

I've been playing a lot of $5 hyper turbo's on stars, playing a little looser than NASH as people are calling a LOT tighter than they should. However, whilst I am winning over a 500 game sample size, my luck adjusted EV in HEM shows -5% ROI(-$100 EV)
Is HEM tracking this wrong or should I look into my game more?

Originally posted by Sandwind

Originally posted by Tulabas
maniac is loosing style and they dont make money in long run agains good oponents

it makes money against the right players

But not against pretty much any good reg who can adjust easily to the style im far from being a good reg just yet but im pretty confident when i come up against nearly all maniacs

Oh and yeh ofc i only beat them cos im lucky

Originally posted by ExternalUseOnly

Originally posted by Sandwind

Originally posted by Tulabas
maniac is loosing style and they dont make money in long run agains good oponents

it makes money against the right players

But not against pretty much any good reg who can adjust easily to the style im far from being a good reg just yet but im pretty confident when i come up against nearly all maniacs

Oh and yeh ofc i only beat them cos im lucky

lol i did not said that so don't be sarcastic
i am just saying that it seems very easy because u are lucky

Originally posted by Semesa
All the discussion re: playing styles is completely useless. TAG, LAG, and maniac are all viable styles in HU. You shouldn't be focusing on one "style" in particular, instead, identify your opponents tendancies, and exploit them. If this makes you play like a maniac vs some opponents, so be it.

i.e. I played 3 tables NL50 today vs a reg. He was calling a lot of cbets on dry boards and donking the turn on safe cards, so I started checking behind and raising turn bets about half of the time. When he adjusted, I started cbetting more flops again, and barrelling rivers.

HU is all about adjustments, not about specific styles.

With all that out of the way, I do have a question.

I've been playing a lot of $5 hyper turbo's on stars, playing a little looser than NASH as people are calling a LOT tighter than they should. However, whilst I am winning over a 500 game sample size, my luck adjusted EV in HEM shows -5% ROI(-$100 EV)
Is HEM tracking this wrong or should I look into my game more?

when it comes to husng i advise u to ignore the ev line
don't ask why please

I wasnt trying to be sarcastic just think you might be a little naive to think maniac style crushes all but can we not hijack the thread cos im pretty interested in reading Plenos answers to all these questions later

Originally posted by ExternalUseOnly
I wasnt trying to be sarcastic just think you might be a little naive to think maniac style crushes all but can we not hijack the thread cos im pretty interested in reading Plenos answers to all these questions later

i was jost joking man.........
i hate forum talk- people always misunderstand

oh lol, im not the shapest tool in the box sometimes

Originally posted by ExternalUseOnly
I wasnt trying to be sarcastic just think you might be a little naive to think maniac style crushes all but can we not hijack the thread cos im pretty interested in reading Plenos answers to all these questions later

i am not a maniac, i was joking.........
btw for all the readers: u should classify your opponents by:

1.how loose they are (loose/tight)
2.how agresive they are(ag/passive)
3.how tricky they are (deceptive/straightforward)

and always try to find their biggest weakness
that could be:
1.they bluffcatch to much
2.they like to bluff(the maniac )
3.they like to see a lot of flops on which they play fit or fold
4.they fold to much (most regulars, tight passive fish, tag fish)
5.they call a lot of cbets but fold at the second barrel
6.they raise only the nuts(or close to it- in general passive opponents )
7.they do too many fancy plays
8.they can't fold a high pair
9.they 3bet anything broadway and call anything else(fold to their 3bet, 3 barrel the hell out of them when they call)
10.their bet sizing is betraying their hand(minbet bottom pair, huge bet top pair, small raise middle pair good kicker; things like that)

etc etc etc
maybe i will add more later

Originally posted by ExternalUseOnly

Originally posted by Sandwind

Originally posted by Tulabas
maniac is loosing style and they dont make money in long run agains good oponents

it makes money against the right players

But not against pretty much any good reg who can adjust easily to the style im far from being a good reg just yet but im pretty confident when i come up against nearly all maniacs

Oh and yeh ofc i only beat them cos im lucky

Can't say i really agree with you. Maniacs are very hard to outplay so your relying on your cards so much more. If your card dead against a maniac it's over. Nothing you can do anymore. Ofcourse i mean a good maniac.

Some people might say a maniac can't be good. But my definition of a maniac is just simply a very loose agressive player or someone who continiously makes big bluffs.

I ran into maniac 2 days ago in turbo hu tournament.. Completly card dead.. every steal attempt he raised me again. Every float attempt he'd turn barrel. He litteraly had 100% CB and turn barrel no joke.. Ofcourse it's not often that this happens but i wouldn't say it's easy to beat a maniac because your relying on cards so much.

(Ofcourse anyone of a style that i say i hard to beat i assume you all understand i mean a good player playing that style. A bad maniac can be very easy to beat even without cards if you know when he bluffs and he is actualy capeable of folding them)

you wouldnt agree with me because you hate to agree with anyone