Originally posted by alejandrosh
in theory it's impossible to be 100% randombut I really doubt it makes a decent diference or wild players get rewarded by it. and better than live games in its randomness.
great example of a response that clearly states the opposite opinion without beating your own chest. much appreciated. 
Originally posted by PidKoker
People seem to focus on monitary values too much IMO, poker isn't some sort of get rich quick scheem. At time it may seem like it but you don't get very far by playing without some sort of strategy. Even though luck is part of the game you can't just shove and pray to get lucky (like some low level donkies do)... you must apply proper BRM, be able to live with bad beats and not get frustrated when players make such stupid plays at low levels. If you can't focus when you shove all in for $2 and lose how can you control yourself when you shove for like $20 or $40 and lose to a bad beat or lose a flip or something like that?
helpful, thoughtful post. thank you.
yeah, you all get the point. i sure wasnt looking for "you rock! we love you!" posts. criticism by all means was expected, but constructive was hoped for. (and certainly sympathy was not gonna be rejected ♦ and got some of that too ).
sorry about the train wreck this thread has become. planned to let this thread die, and it seemed it would more than once, but when it laid dormant a few days and then kept getting revived by the "im sick of these threads" crowd just felt the need today to respond.
my points have been made. i am finished in this thread (and very possibly on this board altogether, but time will tell for sure).
Originally posted by alejandrosh
in theory it's impossible to be 100% random
explain plz? random number generator isn't random?
Originally posted by dnalloh
and are you saying that ALL threads that relate to the same topic should only be in one thread? i dont get to post my own threads in this forum?
All threads about this topic should be thrown off a cliff and this pissed upon. Stop making BS threads and stop whining if people call 'm what they are. Grow some balls 
Originally posted by alland
its not completely random, but it is pseudo random
The top 10 major poker sites all use white-noise random number generators with bias filters. In order to get something more random than that God himself would have to shuffle the deck.
One of the early poker sites was just using good old rand() though. Someone wrote a program to predict every card in play after seeing the flop. ♦
http://www.cigital.com/papers/download/developer_gambling.php
after it all how do we know that there isnt 50,000 monkeys sitting for pokerstars shuffling decks of cards and then selecting them on the screen. Yh. It could be true 
Originally posted by kingdippy2008
after it all how do we know that there isnt 50,000 monkeys sitting for pokerstars shuffling decks of cards and then selecting them on the screen. Yh. It could be true
We know because PokerStars states quite clearly how they shuffle the cards:
http://www.pokerstars.com/poker/room/features/security/
http://www.pokerstars.com/poker/rng/
Originally posted by Kimber88
I believe there's no such thing as a real RNG. But what the poker sites have are probably the closest you get.They certainly don't rig it based on betting patterns. Come on man, why would they?
But if you're playing on Titan you might be right. That site is actually rigged.
Regards,
Kimber88
There definitely are random number generators. Randomness in computer systems is often based on entropic variances such as noise which approximates randomness very closely. I myself have a graphic calculator and once after not using it for a long time I run a command to give me a random number from 1 to 6 (to simulate a dice). First I got a 6 and after that another 6. I thought that's nice, but after running the command for like 15 times I still only got sixes. I turned off the calculator, shook it for a while, turned it back on, executed the command again and instantly got different numbers. Random number generators definitely exist.
Originally posted by tokyoaces
Originally posted by kingdippy2008
after it all how do we know that there isnt 50,000 monkeys sitting for pokerstars shuffling decks of cards and then selecting them on the screen. Yh. It could be trueWe know because PokerStars states quite clearly how they shuffle the cards:
http://www.pokerstars.com/poker/room/features/security/
http://www.pokerstars.com/poker/rng/
i know lol, but i was joking and making fun off this joke topic, but thanks for making those links available... i couldnt be assed to find them
I think everyone who starts one these "rigged" or "RNG isn't random" threads or anything similar should go play backgammon or something and go complain about thier random dice rolling, after all if it's all so "fixed" and you "know" this ......
WHY THE FUCK ARE YOU STILL PLAYING?!
Aren't you the biggest moron that ever disgraced himself on a poker forum? Playing a game that you "know" you can't win is just a moronic and stupid thing to ever post. Makes you look like a fool.
Go and play a different game, and leave us people in the happy and more realistic state of mind that it isn't "rigged" and you can sit at home laughing at us. Just as I am sitting at home laughing at you right now.
Originally posted by MrMardyBum
I think everyone who starts one these "rigged" or "RNG isn't random" threads or anything similar should go play backgammon or something and go complain about thier random dice rolling, after all if it's all so "fixed" and you "know" this ......WHY THE FUCK ARE YOU STILL PLAYING?!
Aren't you the biggest moron that ever disgraced himself on a poker forum? Playing a game that you "know" you can't win is just a moronic and stupid thing to ever post. Makes you look like a fool.
Go and play a different game, and leave us people in the happy and more realistic state of mind that it isn't "rigged" and you can sit at home laughing at us. Just as I am sitting at home laughing at you right now.
I agree. I don't so much think that online poker is rigged, I just think there's stages where you can get a cold deck, or outdrawn on.
If pokerstars was rigged why is it large name pro's who have twice the experience as most of us play there?
. In order to get something more random than that God himself would have to shuffle the deck.
♠_cool: lalallallallallallallalala.Online poker is rigged,pokerstrategy is rigged,and we are all a bunch of idiots ......lallallallallala
ever just sat down with a deck of cards and dealed it yourself? some unbelievable things happen. i dealt myself 3 outer suckouts many times.
no i don't do this in my spare time, just get bored at work ♦ (when I used to need to work <3)
Originally posted by SheepMoose
Originally posted by MrMardyBum
I think everyone who starts one these "rigged" or "RNG isn't random" threads or anything similar should go play backgammon or something and go complain about thier random dice rolling, after all if it's all so "fixed" and you "know" this ......WHY THE FUCK ARE YOU STILL PLAYING?!
Aren't you the biggest moron that ever disgraced himself on a poker forum? Playing a game that you "know" you can't win is just a moronic and stupid thing to ever post. Makes you look like a fool.
Go and play a different game, and leave us people in the happy and more realistic state of mind that it isn't "rigged" and you can sit at home laughing at us. Just as I am sitting at home laughing at you right now.I agree. I don't so much think that online poker is rigged, I just think there's stages where you can get a cold deck, or outdrawn on.
If pokerstars was rigged why is it large name pro's who have twice the experience as most of us play there?
lol *twice*
♦
bad beats are a big pain, but without bad things happening to the better player, the lesser player wouldnt be in the room/ring with you. respect this part of poker and learn to deal with it.
Today i just made the most terrible play vs. a guy who afterwards seemed to be part of pokerstrategy aswell, and got rewarded. Should i do this again because of the positive experience? no.. i will fold every single time he re-raises me and i have pocket 9s (unless he reads this and i start noticing to many re-raises on my 4bb raise from him xD) dont judge me on bad play, i was on a bit of a tilt, i've learned my lesson eventhough i won.
Ofcourse this isn't exactly a argument against your theory, but look at it like this:
winning and deciding to never do it again -
winning and deciding to do it again and again -even if its -EV
loosing and deciding to stop doing it -even if its +EV
loosing and deciding to keep doing it -
if players could see each others hand the correct decisions would be +EV
the wrong decisions -EV. dont even think about money if u've won or lost, only think about was i playing +EV or -EV.
and how could so many other people be succesfull w/ a rigged RNG if they are playing solid, when solid play would be -EV if you was right!?
-hert0g
Get you on that front man....
EV line really means nothing...... It does in some instances but long term it's not really any help at all..... It does keep you on top of checking those allin moments though..... So it brings something to the party.
dnalloh, i totally agree with what you're saying. I've been playing on FullTilt and it's god damn awful how i lose by playing what i consider my best - full attention, carefully thinking about my chances, picking the proper cards but not playing too tight... i totally understand what you're saying.
For more information on random numbers, visit random.org. As far as i know, most random numbers generators are not random in the way that they are generated by an algorithm (which is quite the opposite from "randomness") but the outcome survives the statistical randomness test, which is basically all you can hope for.
The thing is, in order to generate a RN you need a random event, and that is impossible to find. Im unaware as to how random has white noise proven to be, but im pretty sure they test this things so its as close as you can get.
sort of off topic: there really no theory to predict the moving patterns of lava lamps, so this one guy decided to generate random numbers based on pictures of the moving lava. Needless to say, the project was killed eventually because of cheaper methods to get statistically decent results. But the idea was really cool
I don't know why i'm posting in these discussions. If you know basic programming you can write a pretty random number generator in like 30 characters. If you know basic statistics you can probably calculate the probability of crappy things happening. And if you know poker you are sure as hell they can happen lol.
Runner runners are i think the most exciting/ugly/?!? poker stories. But someone makes a runner flush in a little less than 5% and a runner straight in 4% of the time or less, depending on the straight. Which is pretty much the same with hitting a 2outer on the river. So you get into this situation 20 times, 19 times it feels normal to win, you don't even think about being beat, and that 1 time when you are supposed to lose you explode! It's psychology, it has nothing to do with the numbers.
