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Flop?

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casadewinna
Joined: 13.01.2011

Poker Stars $0.25/$0.5 Limit Hold'em - 9 players - View hand 2072434
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Pre Flop: (1.5 SB) Hero is BTN with A♠ Q♠
1 fold, UTG+1 raises, 4 folds, Hero 3-bets, 2 folds, UTG+1 calls

Flop: (7.5 SB) 9♠ T♦ Q♥ (2 players)
UTG+1 bets, Hero raises?

Villain is tight. Preflop is close (vs. TOP 9%). Considering rake even better to fold. The problem is flop, Villain have 28% donkbet and 6% ch/r flop. Thus, I assume that he will ch/r flop with his TOP range, and donkbet some middle part. Also I can expect slowplayed AA-QQ,AK.
Decided to raise directly on the flop as deception. But, when showed this spot to friends, had big disagreement about if there is a value in my hand to raise flop/turn.


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5 replies

Preflop I don't think it's that close; vs 9% (88+,A9s+,KJs+,AJo+,KQo) you have 50%+ equity and given that this is FR I don't think the blinds will be defending too often. However, I don't remember typical FR ranges, so maybe the range I chose there is out of line for UTG+1.

Anyway, in the flop, I think he can be donkbetting things like

JJ,AQs,ATs-A9s,KQs,AQo,KQo

That would be 33% of his range and his top range would be, in this case, all sets (3+3+1=7 combos ~9% of his range), so that looks quite in the spot. You obviously have a lot of equity against that donking range I gave him. However, even against that range, there are J, K, 8 and 9 that shift your equity below a tight value raise on the turn, and it would be around 30% of the deck there that can shift your equity. So my plan here would actually be calling the flop and raising every safe turn. If I get 3bet on a blank, I'd skew his donking range and probably lean towards a FPS of monsters/good hands. In that case, his range would be something on the likes of

QQ+,TT-99,AQs,AQo

against which we have 17% equity, and I think we have a marginal calldown (if I am not mistaken, we'd need about 15% equity for a calldown)

On the other hand, what's your plan with your flop raise?

- If he calls and checks the turn, would you bet/fold? bet/call? check behind?
- If he 3bets the flop, would you call down? fold to scary turns/rivers? raise safe turns?

As I see it, raising the flop IP vs a donk in such a coordinated board... it honestly looks like you are opening your decision tree a lot, and if you have a lot of decisions to make, it's more likely to make a mistake .


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double post --- as usual :facepalm:


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firsttsunami
Joined: 23.01.2006

What about this donking-range? Question is if he caps all his monsterhands and how likely he is to call down worse hands to call flop raise Turn line.


Board: Q♥T♥9♠
       Equity     Win     Tie
MP2    53.62%  47.23%   6.39% { KK, JJ-99, AQs, ATs-A9s, KJs+, QTs+, JTs, AQo, KQo }
MP3    46.38%  40.00%   6.39% { AsQs }

This is your flopequity. I took enough worse hands like QJ ATs but also 99 TT and KK. The board may look scary to him and given your read he should not donk his toprange but it always depends on the boardstructure and obviously he may not perceive 99 as strong as 99 on Q92 board since the board is 3connected.


Board: Q♥T♥9♠ 3♦
       Equity     Win     Tie
MP2    51.35%  45.09%   6.26% { KK, JJ-99, AQs, ATs-A9s, KJs+, QTs+, JTs, AQo, KQo }
MP3    48.65%  42.40%   6.26% { AsQs }

On the Turn you are a slight underdog and also if we'd erase some better hands like KK KJ, your edge is just marginal and your equity not sufficient for raising the turn. In those situations it really depends on the read. Some opponents usually just donk with worse hands. Against those it's call flop and raise Turn but with no proper read, i'd actually just call it down as you can expect to be facing a 3bet by each better hand like 99 TT KJ etc. In case you're ahead, you'll just win 1BB but in case you'll be behind you'll lose 2BB so you require 66% Equity for raising the Turn. Probably the best is just to call down.

Further suggestions?


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casadewinna
Joined: 13.01.2011

Preflop I don't think it's that close; vs 9% (88+,A9s+,KJs+,AJo+,KQo) you have 50%+ equity and given that this is FR I don't think the blinds will be defending too often. However, I don't remember typical FR ranges, so maybe the range I chose there is out of line for UTG+1.

less than 50%

JJ,AQs,ATs-A9s,KQs,AQo,KQo

QQ+,TT-99,AQs,AQo

When we set ranges we have to be sequential. If some hand was not in Villians' range before, it cant appear there later.

On the other hand, what's your plan with your flop raise?

- If he calls and checks the turn, would you bet/fold? bet/call? check behind?

I thought, I had value in increasing pot, but decided to raise the flop to balance my freecard/cheepSD raise range, and as deception.

- If he 3bets the flop, would you call down? fold to scary turns/rivers? raise safe turns?

I think, I can't fold, even if he 3 bets, flop - obvious, turn - equty, river - pot odds)

you are opening your decision tree a lot, and if you have a lot of decisions to make, it's more likely to make a mistake

It's not about quantity if decisions, its about, how tough they can be)


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casadewinna
Joined: 13.01.2011

What about this donking-range?

I think, can be.

Board: Q T 9 3
Equity Win Tie
MP2 51.35% 45.09% 6.26% { KK, JJ-99, AQs, ATs-A9s, KJs+, QTs+, JTs, AQo, KQo }
MP3 48.65% 42.40% 6.26% { AsQs }

On the Turn you are a slight underdog and also if we'd erase some better hands like KK KJ, your edge is just marginal and your equity not sufficient for raising the turn. In those situations it really depends on the read. Some opponents usually just donk with worse hands. Against those it's call flop and raise Turn but with no proper read, i'd actually just call it down as you can expect to be facing a 3bet by each better hand like 99 TT KJ etc. In case you're ahead, you'll just win 1BB but in case you'll be behind you'll lose 2BB so you require 66% Equity for raising the Turn. Probably the best is just to call down.

Thanks, that's I needed!


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