Originally posted by MJPerry
Originally posted by la55i
If we think that he will call a raise with A high then the sizing is ok. I doubt it. And I think that he will not fold any full houses. We do not rep much here either so if we just shove he can easily call with 66, we might be bluffing
A small pair and ace high are essentially the same as a bluffcatcher, unless villain thinks we're turning A2s or 33 into a bluff.
Small pair makes a full house, A high is just shit. It is very difficult for people to fold with full houses, even in situations like this. That is why I think small pair and ace high are very much different. Having a full house, even with small pair, has a psychological effect on most of the villains and they will just call happily and go to different forums to whine about their bad beats.
Originally posted by la55i
Originally posted by MJPerry
Originally posted by la55i
If we think that he will call a raise with A high then the sizing is ok. I doubt it. And I think that he will not fold any full houses. We do not rep much here either so if we just shove he can easily call with 66, we might be bluffingA small pair and ace high are essentially the same as a bluffcatcher, unless villain thinks we're turning A2s or 33 into a bluff.
Small pair makes a full house, A high is just shit. It is very difficult for people to fold with full houses, even in situations like this. That is why I think small pair and ace high are very much different. Having a full house, even with small pair, has a psychological effect on most of the villains and they will just call happily and go to different forums to whine about their bad beats.
Zeebo's theorem doesn't apply when there's trips on the board. 55 beats the same amount of bluffs that AJ does in this hand.
No, it does not and we should also not believe that villain suffers from that particular misconception.
Oh shit I said "bluffcatch" three times and Yohan has emerged from the mirror to post some irrelevant game theory numbers.
I don't know what bluffs 55 beats that Ax doesn't on 94244r. People aren't turning full houses into bluffs as a general rule, so I'm curious.
Well, 55 beats for instance AK, whereas AJ does not. As Lassies said, there is in addition a psychological difference between calling with AJ and calling with 55. Your thesis is that none of these very real differences actually exist, and you further assume that villain reasons the same way.
I think you're being a bit too literal; read "AJ" as "Ax" instead since the original discussion was ace high v pair.
I also don't believe there is a psychological barrier to someone folding e.g. A2s or 33 on 94244; even a total fish recognises that any pair is a full house. I will grant that such a barrier exists when, for example, one faces a river raise holding something like 65s on 5JK65 where all other full houses are better but you can't fold because you have a full house.
Originally posted by MJPerry
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Zeebo's theorem doesn't apply when there's trips on the board. 55 beats the same amount of bluffs that AJ does in this hand.
Then I also know by now that you don't see a psychological difference between folding a full and folding trips with A kicker, but, again, others may feel a difference. We are also not talking about barriers. We are talking about a smooth transition from one hands strength to another. This smooth transition is sometimes steep, a fact that you have also put into question elsewhere (betting 75% or 60% (or whatever) doesn't affect call frequencies with mediocre hands according to you that time).
Originally posted by MJPerry
I think you're being a bit too literal; read "AJ" as "Ax" instead since the original discussion was ace high v pair.I also don't believe there is a psychological barrier to someone folding e.g. A2s or 33 on 94244; even a total fish recognises that any pair is a full house. I will grant that such a barrier exists when, for example, one faces a river raise holding something like 65s on 5JK65 where all other full houses are better but you can't fold because you have a full house.
If he has 2x,33,55-88 he is like: "0Mg I haz full house, villain might be bluffing me with Ax or lower full house, ofc he sometimes has me beat but I have to call.
If he has Ax he is like: "Damn, I don't even beat his bluffs, gotta fold -.-"
There is a difference 
If I remember correctly this all started when we began to debate about the raise size. I think he will not call our raise with Ax because of the reason I stated before ^^. He probably has weaker hand than we do so we can shove and he will call with pretty much any lower full house.