Bluff attempt

Hey,

In general, it's difficult to bluff in these limits, because villains play a lot like fit or fold and if you get called on the first 2 streets it's unlikely you won't get called on the third.
I believe you'll have better hands to use that line, the simple fact of you holding just one diamond would make a significant difference. Therefore I'd not use this line here, because it means if you're doing it with 53o and no backdoor flush you'll do it with all the similar hands, meaning..a ton of combos. And those are a lot.

Take care.

If your intention is to 3 barrel bluff, I believe that the most important thing its not which hand to pick to do it, more in which situations does it makes sense to do it, you understand me? Since you're bluffing and you want villain to fold, it doesn't really matter what your cards are hahah

There are a few points to watch out when trying to pull of a move like this. Personally, I almost never 3 barrel bluff so I'm really not an expert on these spots. But:
-I would look to raise pre-flop to take agression on the hand.
-Also would avoid doing this out of position, acting last would give you more information on villain on this hand.
-The other thing to look out here is the board, there are no scare cards on it...
-villain is unknown and has a very shallow stack... As he limped UTG I always expect him to be a fish, so I'd avoid bluffing against him

hahah so many risks were taken on this hand. I'd advise not to do it.. but again, i'm no expert on this kind of play.

Thank you Torcato. So maybe it is better to just stab the flop and give it up on the turn?? It looks like he have many missed draws on that board but as i think about it, after he calls the turn only flush draws get there basically. Maybe 98, KQ, Q9with diamond or something like that i believe.

Originally posted by biel1996
If your intention is to 3 barrel bluff, I believe that the most important thing its not which hand to pick to do it, more in which situations does it makes sense to do it, you understand me? Since you're bluffing and you want villain to fold, it doesn't really matter what your cards are hahah

There are a few points to watch out when trying to pull of a move like this. Personally, I almost never 3 barrel bluff so I'm really not an expert on these spots. But:
-I would look to raise pre-flop to take agression on the hand.
-Also would avoid doing this out of position, acting last would give you more information on villain on this hand.
-The other thing to look out here is the board, there are no scare cards on it...
-villain is unknown and has a very shallow stack... As he limped UTG I always expect him to be a fish, so I'd avoid bluffing against him

hahah so many risks were taken on this hand. I'd advise not to do it.. but again, i'm no expert on this kind of play.

I totally agree with you but still i think that when bluffing it is not like our hand completely doesn't matter, i mean.....Still there are better hands in our range to bluff with in certain spots than others. And yes...It is not like i 3barrel bluff all the time, very rarely actually, just tried it, i was in the moooood man, you know? Worst case i learn why i should not do it like that ♦ Cheers:f_drink:

Originally posted by VladikataBG
I totally agree with you but still i think that when bluffing it is not like our hand completely doesn't matter, i mean.....Still there are better hands in our range to bluff with in certain spots than others. And yes...It is not like i 3barrel bluff all the time, very rarely actually, just tried it, i was in the moooood man, you know? Worst case i learn why i should not do it like that ♦ Cheers:f_drink:

Yeah I guess I exaggerated, the hand matters, you could look for cards that block villains range of nutty hands, also bluffing on flops or turns when your hand could improve on the next street... But since your draws aren't monster draws on this hand, I'd rather play it a bit passive and only bluff when the situation is more favorable considering all the criteria I mentioned on the other post.

But I get you, it is nice to try it out... Sometimes it'll work, others it will not. At least we learn from it

cheers mate

You say the villain is unknown, but before our first decision we learn loooads about him:

He’s a passive optimistic fish. He’ll call you down with all sorts so bluffing in general is a bad idea against him...

Having said that, in this example I think we might want to raise it up against him preflop. Nice and big. In a small pot a player like that is never folding but if we make ourselves look real strong we can make redline profit off him. If we keep applying heavy pressure to these passive fish they get used to it too, and then they start calling you down in huge pots with terrible hands.

I do like your preflop check. It is probably a good idea to wait until we see a couple more hands against this guy before we start running crazy bluffs with 53o.

So now we’re on the flop. We have two options: Try make this guy fold... or... Sit back and wait for a hand.

Playing any draws real passively (by just checking/calling until you hit a hand) is always a valid option against a passive player. This guy could have TPTK and just check back the flop! If he’s handing out free cards like that we’d be a fool not to take them.

Alternatively you can try to make this guy fold. He has a lot of air in his range so this is a perfectly valid option too.

These are the two main strategies to choose from but in reality all we actually get to choose is whether to bet or check.

If we lead out with a bet, like you did, we are trying to make the villain fold with what is going to be a very small bet against a guy who don’t like to fold.

If we check, we are fulfilling both our objectives: If the villain checks back we take a passive line and sit back. If he bets, we can raise over the top with a far scarier bet than the donk, a bet that makes more profit than the donk, gives us more information and builds the pot bigger for when we do hit. The raise here is way better than the donk for making redline profit.

Leading out with a bet here doesn’t fulfill any of our objectives. It’s just a bit, meh. You’d expect this passive dude to call you down all day long so by all means do it with a weak pair. You could donk pot with a strong pair. But don’t donk in a limp pot against a passive fish when you have a gutshot.

Donks looks weak, generally speaking.

Then the turn comes, changes everything, but you stayed the course. This makes alarm bells ring! If the board ever changes heavily and the villain continues with the same aggressive strategy he’s probably still trying to bluff you.. You gotta switch up your strategy on the J because if you are repping strength you are repping a different hand to what you had a second ago. You could check raise, you could check and then lead the river, you could change your betsize, anything except continuing on with the same sized barrel...

You carried on with another barrel and now your hand looks even more like air than it did when you donked the flop.

On the dry river card your range is so weak this guy could call you with K high.

Originally posted by VladikataBG
Thank you Torcato. So maybe it is better to just stab the flop and give it up on the turn?? It looks like he have many missed draws on that board but as i think about it, after he calls the turn only flush draws get there basically. Maybe 98, KQ, Q9with diamond or something like that i believe.

You're welcome man.
I don't like that line either, stab on the flop to give up on the next street.
I'd just play x/f unless our hand improves. We'll have much better hands to use different approaches.

I'm no pro but I think if you were gunna go with it you should have raised pre-flop to tell the story better, 53o is junk and if the villain is a weak-tight player you may have been able to just steal the pot pre with a good raise.If he is somewhat loose I would rather not bluff at all unless I know he is capable of folding. I wouldn't advise to bluff unknowns because you don't know if they have a fold button in them which can = lost money. I have made this exact mistake this week but the guy I tried to bluff had like 40vpip, I raised pre flop from Early Position and he called from BU. The flop came 4-2-K the turn came a another K and I 3 barrel bluffed because I picked up a flush-draw on the turn, I had put my villains range on bottom or middle pair on the flop and he just did not stop calling on the turn and river even though I was representing a top paired K or Pocket JJ+ on a pretty dry board. He called down to the river and showed T2 with bottom pair and I learned my lesson the hard way. I would try to find evidence that villain can lay down a marginal hand and/or that they are a thinking player before I try to bluff from now on, just my 2 cents

I don't think we should raise pre take a free flop and see what comes and postflop i think the lines ok.Villains not going to have a strong range here maybe a few sets if they limp call some small pairs like 22 and 66.Other wise a lot of 6x some draws and other weaker hands and the j puts pressure on villains Tx.So it's a decent card to carry on the bluff as it brings another over card to a lot of villains showdown hands.Once you fire the flop and turn i think were pretty much obligated to fire the river without any showdown value.And if the intention is to give up on the turn we probably shouldn't stab on the flop but with the gs your lines ok imo.Because your checking from the bb you can rep basically everything apart from TT here.

Originally posted by RedsYNWA
I don't think we should raise pre take a free flop and see what comes and postflop i think the lines ok.Villains not going to have a strong range here maybe a few sets if they limp call some small pairs like 22 and 66.Other wise a lot of 6x some draws and other weaker hands and the j puts pressure on villains Tx.So it's a decent card to carry on the bluff as it brings another over card to a lot of villains showdown hands.Once you fire the flop and turn i think were pretty much obligated to fire the river without any showdown value.And if the intention is to give up on the turn we probably shouldn't stab on the flop but with the gs your lines ok imo.Because your checking from the bb you can rep basically everything apart from TT here.

Finally somebody on my side:f_biggrin: Nothing to say about the postflop part, just reading your posts (thanks for them:f_drink:) and trying to make a conclusion since bluffs, picking the right hand to do it and so on is still very confusing for me:f_ugly: But i agree with Reds that there is no point in raising preflop

He has a 22b stack, so the conclusion is obvious.
Take a free flop, play fit or fold. I've been told that 53o won't be a moneymaker.

Originally posted by zetozinho
He has a 22b stack, so the conclusion is obvious.
Take a free flop, play fit or fold. I've been told that 53o won't be a moneymaker.

+1 to this comment I didn't realize villains stack size pre-flop raising seems like a mistake in this case I take back my comment.