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call maniac ip KTs vs 3bet, how to treat overbet on turn with 2ndNUtFD

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domi222
Joined: 27.10.2007

we are 5 Stacks deep here. This is where I want to learn more about my mistakes.

His stats (only 54 hands but...):
47/37/ 3bet 27

cbet flop 86
cbet turn 100

His stats look quite maniac, I would generally call more here. But its uncomfoprtable to play that deep. I would consider him bluffing 3 barrels as well as betting tpTk 3x oop.

1. I decide to flat the small cbet here, the face a huge turnbet. Can someone explain how much the situation changes now because of the deep stacks? I see him bluff the turn quite often, but in my head I got stuck with I cannot call a 120 % turn cbet with a pure 2ndnutFD...??
How do I reconsider the big turn bet here. Do i have to call more because we are so deep?

2. Do I need to fold on a SHOVE for 500bb with 2nd nutflush because we are so deep? I guess not and would in a not so deep pot always shove the river here cause I made a runnerrunner. What about a paired board on the river? (cause he can have 66, 54, 67, even 63, 63 with 27% 3bet (7/26)...

i ned 37 % to make the call on turn but as we are so deep I believe that if I hit flush, he will continue to bet high like 22-32 into 32$ pot and I would raise and he would pay me off with QQ, 66, 33, 77, 67, AQ unless the river is maybe a 5 or 4 action killer. I dont think he would put me on a flush, more like AQ, KQ, 67 and straight draws. So i think I would shove the river or if he checks, bet 21 or decide to go for overbet like 44-47.

after all this thoughts and the fact that he would play a picked up FD (1maybe straight draws) excactly like that I would call turn next time.

If I then hit a King I would have another tough decision on the river if he bets again and call a half pot bet or fold.

thanks for your time

PokerStars - $0.25 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 55.48 BB (VPIP: 50.00, PFR: 33.33, 3Bet Preflop: 50.00, Hands: 7)
SB: 483.08 BB (VPIP: 46.30, PFR: 37.04, 3Bet Preflop: 26.92, Hands: 54)
BB: 110.12 BB (VPIP: 21.61, PFR: 17.38, 3Bet Preflop: 6.65, Hands: 1,298)
UTG: 167.08 BB (VPIP: 24.42, PFR: 23.26, 3Bet Preflop: 13.79, Hands: 88)
MP: 100 BB (VPIP: 21.74, PFR: 18.01, 3Bet Preflop: 1.64, Hands: 163)
Hero (CO): 731.24 BB

SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has K:club: T:club:

fold, fold, Hero raises to 2.52 BB, fold, SB raises to 12 BB, fold, Hero calls 9.48 BB

Flop: (25 BB, 2 players) 6:club: Q:diamond: 3:heart:
SB bets 7.88 BB, Hero calls 7.88 BB

Turn: (40.76 BB, 2 players) 7:club:
SB bets 48.64 BB, fold

SB wins 38.92 BB


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3 replies
Super Moderator
VorpalF2F
Joined: 02.09.2010

There is an old saying,
"If you're gonna fold the river, fold the turn.
If you're gonna fold the turn, fold the flop
If you're gonna fold the flop, fold pre"
That sorta applies here.
Well, except I would play pre exactly as you did — especially that deep.

This deep, I would outright fold the flop though. Only one overcard, and a backdoor flush draw not even to the nuts.


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Moderator
SDK1987
Joined: 12.11.2008

I understand the call on the flop by the decent odds you get, but indeed it's really hard to improve except backdoor outs or top pair could help you to continue on later streets.

Cheers,
SDK1987


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domi222
Joined: 27.10.2007

thanks my takeaway is: think deeper at the flop before you make any loose call.

but call or 3bet here pre is standard, no? I think i d 3bet more here


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