NL2 - AA - Drawy Board

Hey Jadocky,

Preflop iso-raise for value is fine.

Flop cbet for value is good here, sizing is fine.

Definitely want to be 2barreling turn here. Something like 22bb is fine imo since our line looks strong anyway 2barreling into a 3-way pot.

River is actually pretty thin due to the strength of our line. Probably better to bet a little smaller on turn and bet less than a shove on the river for value (probably closer to 1/3rd pot.

Hey,

Why "Definitely want to be 2barreling turn here"? what are the reasons to second barrel on a low drawy board in a 3 way pot?

As for the river, I'm pot commited, and a 1/3 pot equal half my stack. So why my push at the river is too much?

We want to 2barrel here purely for value.

Similar to comments in previous hand, the fact that the board is drawy means we should bet more frequently when there is a decent chance our hand is good. It's the dry textures we can get away with betting for protection less frequently.

As for river, 1/3rd pot only equals half our river stack if we keep the current turn sizing and I recommend you make it smaller. The larger we bet, the stronger the range we isolate ourself against. There gets a point where we isolate ourself purely against a range of hands that have us beat. However in these situations we may still have profitable value bets if we make our bet-sizing smaller and get action from a wider range which we have more equity against.

Yes, we agree on this one. It's a bet for value. It is more likely in this spot that we have the best hand. And the spot is less drawy than the other. And also there are less scary river card, every high card is good for us.

As fore the 1/3 pot bet, I still don't see the difference. 4BB less than what I have done on the turn doesn't change anything. If we bet 22bb instead of 26bb (not obvious difference to make when u are multitabling), it's the same. It will still be a half of my stack on the river.
And if we make smaller that 2/3 pot on turn we would have lost a lot of value against all the draws that can call in the spot. It's more likely to have a call since I have 2 opponents.

Originally posted by Jadocky
As fore the 1/3 pot bet, I still don't see the difference. 4BB less than what I have done on the turn doesn't change anything. If we bet 22bb instead of 26bb (not obvious difference to make when u are multitabling), it's the same. It will still be a half of my stack on the river.

If we bet smaller on the turn, it reduces the size of the pot on the river + we still have more left in our stack. Yes it's only a small difference but it makes it easier to bet/fold.

Originally posted by Jadocky
And if we make smaller that 2/3 pot on turn we would have lost a lot of value against all the draws that can call in the spot. It's more likely to have a call since I have 2 opponents.

Larger bets don't necessarily equal more value in the long run. Otherwise we'd just shove all in on the turn. There is a perfect sizing.

Originally posted by w34z3l

If we bet smaller on the turn, it reduces the size of the pot on the river + we still have more left in our stack. Yes it's only a small difference but it makes it easier to bet/fold.

Stack: 100 - 4(pf) - 8(flop) - 22 (suggested bet turn) = 66BB left
Pot: 36,5(turn) + 22(bet hero suggested) + 14(BB call) + 22(UTG call) = 94,5BB

1/3x94,5= 31,5BB

31,5BB isn't that almost half 66BB stack left (with a bet at 22BB)???

There is absolutely no difference in this spot.

As I mentioned, it's a small difference, but makes it easier to bet/fold. We can even reduce sizing to 24bb or something.

Jx is not a good card for us. It makes it harder to get called by worse, and 9T draw also gets there (even though unlikely holding). Which worse hands are calling a river shove btw?

Not sure what you want me to tell you. Would you rather me just tell you all your hands are played great?

Of course there is a difference btw. If we change something then there is a difference......

We are not talking about the way I played the hand, if it's great or not!
We are talking about your ridiculous bet/fold river @1/3 pot suggestion.

You are suggesting to bet 1/3 pot wich equal almost half my stack on a pot that would have been @ +125BB, and fold my 35BB left incase villain reraised...
(Even if I bet 22BB turn like you suggested, 1/3 pot on the river equals half my stack and 35BB left on a pot of +125BB)
Are you aware of what you are saying???
You want me to fold my 35BB left on a pot that will match 160BB if villain reraised!!

What you want me to say, that every analyse you made is great...
You want me to just take your analyse as it is, without discussing it?

It's based on population read for these limits that if opponent raises river our one-pair hand is basically never good. Pot odds become irrelevant. So yes, if we are always beat why would we call just because we get a good price?

It's simply a case of how we can extract the most (long run) value on the river. A small bet extracts more long-run value if it is paid off much more frequently than a larger bet. So if you want to bet/call, then whatever, but that doesn't necessarily mean that shoving has a higher expectation than a smaller bet.

Btw, I love to discuss hands that's why I'm here - just not understanding the attitude that's all. Fwiw I'm a long term winner - millions of hands. River underbets are a decent part of my strategy, especially at micro limits vs passive opponents. It's simply a case of setting up the appropriate turn and river sizing to make it optimal.

So which worse hands is villain calling on river vs a shove? What is opponents range for getting to the river?