NL20 Speed - Monochrome flop, river straight and check-raised

Originally posted by MJPerry
I think our hand has a bit more value than showdown value when he check/calls two streets and then checks a third time. He almost never has a flush with that line and isn't folding 100%.

Now I understood. It seems a good line of thinking... but if u are barreling all streets, he can check just to see u do it one more time.

Originally posted by Afulibador

Originally posted by nitrol

Originally posted by Afulibador

Originally posted by nitrol
On a monoboard the bigger bet looks more value heavy...

It depends, bigger bets also polarizes ur range to really good hands/hands w no showdown value.

So we should bet smaller and fokd vs a raise.

Nah, for me this is a clear check and see the showdown.

Safest way is not always the most +EV... but still you have a point.

Originally posted by Afulibador

Originally posted by nitrol

Originally posted by Afulibador
I dont get this bet on the turn, trying to push it in a 2c card.
Are u trying to buy the flush urself here, MJ?

Turn is a blank so maybe this is the reason. I am not a fan of it too.

I m really curious of getting MJ point of view on this.

I just think there's a ton of hands that he won't want to call three barrels with. That probably supports nitrol's argument for a smaller river bet, but too late for that now!

There aren't a lot of hands that I'd be checking back the turn with after cbetting the flop; I'd continue with top pair+ and AsX, so I should have some pure bluffs in that range as well. I'm not sure what my check-back range would be here; maybe just the nut flush and some air?

Originally posted by Afulibador

Originally posted by MJPerry
I think our hand has a bit more value than showdown value when he check/calls two streets and then checks a third time. He almost never has a flush with that line and isn't folding 100%.

Now I understood. It seems a good line of thinking... but if u are barreling all streets, he can check just to see u do it one more time.

That is why we will do a small bet there. We do not want to disappoint him.

Originally posted by nitrol

Originally posted by Afulibador

Originally posted by nitrol

Originally posted by Afulibador

Originally posted by MJPerry

Originally posted by nitrol
What do you think of making a smaller bet on river?

Definitely has merits. Think my bigger river bet looks bluffier than a half-pot bet or something, though.

Man, I think I m getting this way different than u guys... I would have this river checked.

Checking is the safest way.

And the more reasonable one imo.

Not if you try to find the thin value. That is what MJ wants.

Man, he CAN have us beat already... And we have a showdown hand.Thats why I think its more reasonable getting to showdown.

Originally posted by Afulibador

Originally posted by MJPerry
I think our hand has a bit more value than showdown value when he check/calls two streets and then checks a third time. He almost never has a flush with that line and isn't folding 100%.

Now I understood. It seems a good line of thinking... but if u are barreling all streets, he can check just to see u do it one more time.

Yeah I mean if he'd called with like 65ss I wouldn't have fainted in shock. But when he raises I think the only hand he can do that for value with is the nuts, and it's a little unusual to see the nut flush check-called twice.

Man, We already understood that you like the safest way. Me and MJ are debating is it possible to make a thin value bet. It may not be ok but we are discussing it, which is the charm of it.:)

Originally posted by MJPerry

Originally posted by Afulibador

Originally posted by nitrol

Originally posted by Afulibador
I dont get this bet on the turn, trying to push it in a 2c card.
Are u trying to buy the flush urself here, MJ?

Turn is a blank so maybe this is the reason. I am not a fan of it too.

I m really curious of getting MJ point of view on this.

I just think there's a ton of hands that he won't want to call three barrels with. That probably supports nitrol's argument for a smaller river bet, but too late for that now!

There aren't a lot of hands that I'd be checking back the turn with after cbetting the flop; I'd continue with top pair+ and AsX, so I should have some pure bluffs in that range as well. I'm not sure what my check-back range would be here; maybe just the nut flush and some air?

Man, we dont need to worry to be that balanced all the time... thats my opinion. So I would stop on the turn already.

Originally posted by nitrol

Originally posted by Afulibador

Originally posted by nitrol

Originally posted by Afulibador

Originally posted by nitrol
On a monoboard the bigger bet looks more value heavy...

It depends, bigger bets also polarizes ur range to really good hands/hands w no showdown value.

So we should bet smaller and fokd vs a raise.

Nah, for me this is a clear check and see the showdown.

Safest way is not always the most +EV... but still you have a point.

I m surprised u saying I have a point here.

Originally posted by nitrol

Originally posted by Afulibador

Originally posted by MJPerry
I think our hand has a bit more value than showdown value when he check/calls two streets and then checks a third time. He almost never has a flush with that line and isn't folding 100%.

Now I understood. It seems a good line of thinking... but if u are barreling all streets, he can check just to see u do it one more time.

That is why we will do a small bet there. We do not want to disappoint him.

If he has we beat, a small bet ll just increase the amount we lose.

Originally posted by Afulibador
Man, we dont need to worry to be that balanced all the time... thats my opinion. So I would stop on the turn already.

We don't need to but it certainly doesn't hurt. This is Speed Poker and regs have thousands of hands on each other quite commonly.

That said, I do think my turn bet is the worst decision I make in the hand; however, I don't think it's overly terrible for the reasons stated above.

Well, it is obvious and clearly stated. I cannot go against the obvious.

Originally posted by MJPerry

Originally posted by Afulibador
Man, we dont need to worry to be that balanced all the time... thats my opinion. So I would stop on the turn already.

We don't need to but it certainly doesn't hurt. This is Speed Poker and regs have thousands of hands on each other quite commonly.

A little offtopic, sorry: How is the field in IPoker?

Also I don't think a check back on the river is atrocious either, but I think the (admittedly higher-variance) approach of betting is more +EV.

Originally posted by MJPerry

Originally posted by Afulibador

Originally posted by MJPerry
I think our hand has a bit more value than showdown value when he check/calls two streets and then checks a third time. He almost never has a flush with that line and isn't folding 100%.

Now I understood. It seems a good line of thinking... but if u are barreling all streets, he can check just to see u do it one more time.

Yeah I mean if he'd called with like 65ss I wouldn't have fainted in shock. But when he raises I think the only hand he can do that for value with is the nuts, and it's a little unusual to see the nut flush check-called twice.

I see, so u are removing here most of lower flushes right?

Originally posted by MJPerry
Also I don't think a check back on the river is atrocious either, but I think the (admittedly higher-variance) approach of betting is more +EV.

hahaha yes, we are increasing the variance here. But I m not fan of it just cause of that... but cause I have my doubts if its actually a +EV play as a standard.

Field on ipoker, imho, is weak. But I never played at stars to make a good comparison.

Originally posted by nitrol

Originally posted by MJPerry

Originally posted by Afulibador
Man, we dont need to worry to be that balanced all the time... thats my opinion. So I would stop on the turn already.

We don't need to but it certainly doesn't hurt. This is Speed Poker and regs have thousands of hands on each other quite commonly.

A little offtopic, sorry: How is the field in IPoker?

I haven't played on Stars for so long that I can't really compare. Anecdotally I'd say iPoker seems a bit softer but I've no real idea; it's micros so there's a fair share of fish.

I am planning to test Ipoker and wanted an opinion. The softer field is tempting.

MJ, which room on IPoker?