+++Q&A with Jared Tendler!!+++

Originally posted by JaredTendler

Originally posted by Helipacter

Originally posted by JaredTendler

Originally posted by Helipacter
Okay, this question could be a bit fluffy:

What tips/tools/advice can you offer a player that is tilting, knows it, but won't leave the table. (Fortunately, it doesn't happen so often to me, but when it does it's like a tractor beam, and all roads lead to to the kingdom of Busto.)

In my experience, the following scenarios have occurred:

1) I normally set myself a hand limit for the session (say 200), on hand 180 I get a bad beat, and I feel the evil rise. After a while I "wake up" on, say, hand 300. I realise that I've spent the passed 120 hands wishing cancer on the guy whilst still trying to recoup some losses, but I cannot leave the table.

2) If I get one-outed by some bum, I immediately leave the table and say "no poker for 24hours". Two hours later I'm back at my desk raging at the world.

I'm fully aware that I know I'm steaming (temples pulsing), but I can't snap out of it.

So, long story short, how does a person get their mind off a bad session whilst still in a tilt-funk?

Cheers

There's nothing fluffy about this question - unless we have different definitions of fluffy:)

The only way to correct this type of tilt is to do a lot of work away from the table to break down your Accumulated Tilt (or so I call it). Basically, in your mind, you have have collected anger/tilt over the years and now whenever you have a bad beat, or suck-out, it's like your mind is instantly flooded with emotion. So much emotion, that it overwhelms your mind and you lose control. Frankly, it's nearly impossible for you to be in control when the emotion is that strong.

The reason is that thinking is essentially how the mind maintains control. However, when emotions rise too high, they shut down the mind, and prevent you from being about to think, and thus maintain emotional control.

Which is why your job is to do work away from the table to break down this accumulated emotion, so they're is less of it to deal with and thus easier to maintain control. AND then you need to also get better at maintaining control during your session.

I'll be honest, this is the most difficult thing to accomplish in the mental game. The work you do off the table, has to be taken with the seriousness as though you're preparing for a poker life/death situation. I'm happy to help you work through some of it in the forum. If you can afford it, I'd definitely recommend getting my book, it's designed to help clearly lay out how to address a problem like this. Then, my help in the forum, would be much more productive.

Either way, what is is about a bad beat/suck out that causes you to get so angry?

Sorry, the post began fluffy, but became concrete, so I should've changed the first line - my bad!

Thanks for the offer, though I'm speaking more in general than specifics. I've definitely had these emotions at the beginning of my "poker career", but now I can recognise them brewing away and shut down before they get too much (thank you Tommy Angelo!). The greatest anti-tilt tactic ever: click "leave table" and go and do something productive (cooking or gardening are great for this!). If I'm on the end of consecutive bad beats, I run, not walk, to the exits!

My worst "tilt habit" is chasing losses; say I'm 5BB down, I'll stay a little longer than optimal - but again, this is something I'm working on.

I suppose I should've phrased my argument better. Basically, are there any tips to talk yourself out of playing under a cloud of tilt, or is it merely a case of recognising it, and convincing yourself that you're wasting your time? (This isn't exclusively tilt either, but sleep, hunger, drink - sub-optimal is sub optimal, I suppose tilt is the worst because there can be a sense of shame attached to it - you've always lost to a moron, right?!.)

Whilst I'm not immune from tilt (who is?), I wouldn't say that I play in an angry state of mind. I realise that I give someone the satisfaction of seeing me leave immediately following their one-outer on the river, but I do take satisfaction in the fact that they're not getting any more of my BBs.

(Apologies for the wall of text!)

no worries.

There are things you can do beyond recognizing it, but the next step is definitely the more complex part. Recognition is a huge first step - you have no chance of the second one with it out it.

You're on the right track with convincing yourself, but what is important is the specifics of what you're convincing yourself of. See, the anger that you're experiencing, even if it's at low levels is happening for a reason (Btw, there are tons of players who tilt in subtle ways that still affect their performance). What you want to say to yourself is a correction in the flaw causing the anger.

Figuring out the underlying cause of your anger can take a little bit of digging, but once you find the cause of your anger, the correction to it is what you want to say to yourself. You need to make sure that you're saying in the moments when tilt begins to show itself, and then you need to force yourself to playing longer.

I know that goes against your current strategy of quitting at the first sign of tilt, but ultimately, if you want to solve your tilt problem - and believe me there are many many clients of mine who have solved it - you need to be able to control your tilt, while at the table. Quitting is not a real solution, it's a way of managing tilt.

Does this help?

Hi Jared,

Hmmm... this is getting interesting.

Tilt, in my opinion, is entirely ego-based; I see it as being linked with how you perceive yourself , and how others perceive you. If you lose a hand to an inferior player, or you realise that you have a hole in your game through which someone else has driven a truck, it's obvious that something will begin to brew.

As an example of why I think it's ego based: you never feel as bad when you've realised you've missed value on a river bet as you do when you call a guy's river donk because you "just had to see". In the first instance, only you know you've made a mistake, in the second everyone knows (assuming everyone is watching).

I'm not sure why we should feel angry - these people you're playing don't mean anything to you, so who cares what they think? And if you've lost a hand through bad play, then you're not as great as you think you are, so get to work on that leak.

The next time I tilt, I'll follow your advice and try and work through it at the table. I imagine that to do so, you need to breakdown the anger, and find the root of it.

Additionally, I've used some of the techniques mentioned in the Silver psychology articles on here, which kind of "occupy your mind" and move it away from the tilt, which works for me also.

All in all it helps. I'm about to begin my sophomore year as a player, so I need to get to grips with the psychological parts of the game in order to make optimal decisions at the table.

Originally posted by JaredTendler

Hi!

Do you mind answering a few questions first, there are a few more details I'd like to have before giving you an answer. Regarding f#1 - what's your schedule like during the day? How many days do you play/week? How many hours/games?

Regarding #2 - What's it like for you during the times when you're not at your mental peak? Does it feel as though most other times things get jumbled in your head? Or like it's a messy desk and hard to navigate your thoughts? The simple way to be at your peak more is to remove the things that take you out of it. So, any details you can give to describe what it's like to not less than 100% mentally will help me understand the cause of it.

1- I go to college classes from 9:00AM to around 5:30PM, four days a week, plus from 1:30PM to 6:00 PM on Wednesdays. I try to play at least 2 hours a day, somedays I manage to put in 4 hours.

2- Both things I guess, when Im not at my peak my thoughts are kind of racing, hard to focus on one idea and keep the clutter aside, there are varying degrees of "mental pollution", but the messy racing mind is always there to some extent.

Originally posted by TheLegend142
Hi Jared,

I glad you joined ps.com. I am a fan of your work since your videos on stox. Unfortunately I just working on my mental game right now. But your book and videos helped me a lot especially to recognise the small improvements i would not recognise otherwise.

I really like your book so far! (And btw thank you again for the really fast answers concerning the shipping issues)

Hi! Thanks for the good words. I'm psyched to hear you're enjoying the book...and happy to help re: shipping. Good customer service is 2nd only to the quality of the content, in importance.

Originally posted by Shevtshenko
Why is it that it gets so much harder to make even relatively easy decisions when you're losing and running badly compared to when you're up and running good? What's the thing that changes in our thought process? Is it just being too optimistic? Maybe that's not a question that can be answered without knowing the person but hopefully you can give your thoughts on this subject.

Well, there's always a personal component to the final answer, but generally speaking the issue comes down to how much mental space you actually have to be able to think.

The part of the brain that's responsible for thinking is called, Working Memory. When you actually have thoughts in your head, that's that part of the brain where it happens. There's been a lot of research done on working memory (started by the phone company), and what they've consistently found is that among all people, there's a limit to between 5-9 pieces of information that a person can have in working memory at any one time.

When emotions rise, even if just slightly, the emotional part of the brain becomes more active and actually begins to shut down the thinking part of the brain. Which means, if you could think about say 7 things when playing great, now you can only think about 5, or even 4. If you're really tilting you may only thing about 1 or 2 and the rest are purely automatic decisions.

The key answer to you question is that emotion is shutting down your ability to think, and even though it's subtle, if it's affecting your game you have to treat it like a big problem at the time and do your best to control/resolve that emotion.

Does that help/answer it?

Originally posted by blackops888
Hey Jared... just wanted to thank you for the tips! Keep up the good work!!

Your welcome!! Glad your enjoying em.

Originally posted by YinYangS
Questions:

Since you're very good at the mental part of the game, have you ever considered playing poker and focusing on earning a lot of money on it? or are you actually doing that already?

I've thought about it, but not for too long. As cheesy as it sounds I really love what I do, and playing poker would be similar to my previous dreams of playing professional golf. With my full time job, I really want to be the very best that I possibly can be, and perhaps one of the best in the world. Having already devoted the last 10 years to my profession, I have a great thing going and don't want to start a new career. Poker will always remain a hobby for me, though I would like to get to the point where I could beat some low-mid stakes game, but it's really just a question of time. And I already don't have enough of it. Maybe when I retire:)

Originally posted by YinYangS
How would you handle friends/family members who still have a negative understanding/view of the game? In the long run, i know their support is also crucial to one's success. But how can one handle them? (i don't know if it is ok to ask this question because the topic is now about relationships)

I'm happy with all the thoughts and advises you've shared here. I think you're doing a really really great job!!!!!!!!!!

Oh last question, i would love to purchase your book so much, but during the purchase option, there's nothing for "Philippines". so how can i buy your great book?

You can ask any questions you way. I would compare poker to other forms of risk taking. People often think of poker just as gambling, but they don't realize the gambling that occurs in all walks of life. I would love to hear someone prove to me that a person who decides to open a corner convenience store is taking on less risk than a person playing poker. Obviously the businesses are very different, but in some case I would argue that small business owners are gambling far more than more "gamblers." They have no idea of market conditions, marketing, business management, etc. They want to work for themselves, have a good idea, and jump right in without much thought. They're small business fish.

I'd also compare your job to others that are about managing risk, bankroll, etc. Finance is a great one, and really the stock market, derivative or commodity traders operate their businesses very much like poker players do. The problem with the financial crisis, especially in the US, really came down to the fact that there was a ton of risk being taken without large enough bankrolls to support it. Responsible/skilled poker players are as successful managing risk as responsible investors.

Glad to see Barry helped you get the purchase taken care of. Look forward to your thoughts on the book.

Originally posted by neil0707
WOW, what a great thread....I tilt like a tilty thing on a tilty stick with tilty legs...im quite highly strung anyway and have learned when not go nuts in normal life, but i have the old problems come back when i play poker. I cant afford anymore Lap tops....So thank you Sir Jared for your input and time in this thread. Think you have saved me a fortune, shame your not female as a proposal would follow....lol

Oh and by the way the sex thing.......thats for real......Not with you Sir Jared... ♦

Can I still have the diamond though?

Lol, that's some tilt man. Just finished my second article, should be up soon. So hopefully that'll help too.

Originally posted by Dublimax
Hi Jared,

I have a question regarding running good / bad and how we play when it happens.

Unlike many people (from what I have read) I think I tend to play better when I am on a losing session/running bad.

e.g after an hour of play I am down let's say 2 stacks (I know I shouldn't check the results while playing but I can't ). Then I am like "ok come on Max let's get back on track" and I start focusing 200%, analyzing fully all the info, explaining all my moves etc...

Instead when I am winning/running hot I might relax more, lose focus a bit, play some draws that I shouldn't play, play to aggro in some spots etc....

Do you have any thoughts on this?

Edit: In fact if I look at my life time graph I usually have a downswing (or more accurately me playing bad) after running good.

Part of the answer to this pattern is right in your answer: Focus. Low focus = low performance. Here's why:

It all comes down to thinking. When you're super motivated to play well, it's that energy which drives your mind into the highest gear. That intense energy is tough to sustain day in and day out. Unless you really train for it. Without the need to force yourself into that gear, you naturally relax, which means you actually don't have the mental energy to think as deeply or intensely as you do when it's called upon.

Here's the key: Focus is driven by goals.

Your goals sound to me, to be mostly about money/results. Money/results matter, don't get me wrong. I'm not one of those guys who says just go out and do as well as you can. At the end of the day results are what it all comes down to. However, in poker, and in other games/sports, you ability to achieve results comes down to the quality of how you play relative to the demands of the game. I suggest that you set quality goals for every single time you play. Playing isn't just about how much you make, it's also about how well you played. Work your ass off to consistently put in that intense effort (or at least something close to it) and see what you can really accomplish on a consistent basis.

This help/make sense?

Originally posted by Saruniks
Hello

what do you mean by saying "talented guy"?
What edge do they have?
Hard Working? Thinking? Something with Psichology or what?

I'm not sure exactly what you're referring to, but talent can mean a lot of things. Talent in the mental game/psychology just means that their a person who is naturally built or wired internally to handle stress, frustration, pressure, etc with ease. They naturally have more confidence, high focus, and motivation.

This talent is no different than a talented artist, athlete, business person, or poker player. The only difference is the specifics of their talent. The edge that they have is they don't have to work on this aspect of their game as much as others do, and can focus on learning how to play more.

Originally posted by THESHade

Originally posted by JaredTendler

Good to hear you're taking notes through videos now, but I think in general you're putting too much pressure on the thinking part of your brain, or as I say in the book - Conscious Competence (the degree of knowledge that you have to think about to be good). The reason I strongly suspect that is your last statement. My sense is that you lose confidence after a few days off because you have to dig the newer knowledge out of your head, and it's too far back there to get at. So you end up relying on the momentum of a lot of play to keep all this new info fresh in your head. Once that momentum stops, it takes a lot of effort to get it rolling again.

That's one of the consequences of having a wide range in your skill set as Inchworm describes.

The most simple way of correcting this problem is to do the exercise on page 213, where you write out, in detail, the greatest weaknesses in your game. All these mistakes, the ones you make when you come back from a few days off, have not been mastered. Which means, that you are still in the process of learning them. While they may seem very basic and obvious, and you may think are mastered. Just by making them means you haven't mastered them.

The reason this is relevant is that your greatest weaknesses are essentially keeping the back end of your bell curve/inchworm in place. Your worst cannot improve, until you master these parts of your game. So, every single day you work on your game, ever day you play, make sure you review them and never make them. Do that consistently, especially after coming back from a break, and eventually they'll become mastered, and you can move on to your next greatest weakness, and repeat the process.

Does this make sense? Help?

Thnx, will deffo try that.
Yup, it makes sense + its logical so I like it
Will report later

Awesome, definitely keep me posted. I'm always interested to hear.

You can ask any questions you way. I would compare poker to other forms of risk taking. People often think of poker just as gambling, but they don't realize the gambling that occurs in all walks of life. I would love to hear someone prove to me that a person who decides to open a corner convenience store is taking on less risk than a person playing poker. Obviously the businesses are very different, but in some case I would argue that small business owners are gambling far more than more "gamblers." They have no idea of market conditions, marketing, business management, etc. They want to work for themselves, have a good idea, and jump right in without much thought. They're small business fish.

I'd also compare your job to others that are about managing risk, bankroll, etc. Finance is a great one, and really the stock market, derivative or commodity traders operate their businesses very much like poker players do. The problem with the financial crisis, especially in the US, really came down to the fact that there was a ton of risk being taken without large enough bankrolls to support it. Responsible/skilled poker players are as successful managing risk as responsible investors.

Great answer! Maybe I should show this to my parents. ♦

More questions: ♦

What do you think of the law of attraction? Do you think it's idea/principle could help a poker player? or it just comes naturally depends on the person whether he really likes what he's doing?

Again, such a great thread and for you having here.

Originally posted by Helipacter

Originally posted by JaredTendler

Originally posted by Helipacter

Originally posted by JaredTendler

Originally posted by Helipacter
Okay, this question could be a bit fluffy:

What tips/tools/advice can you offer a player that is tilting, knows it, but won't leave the table. (Fortunately, it doesn't happen so often to me, but when it does it's like a tractor beam, and all roads lead to to the kingdom of Busto.)

In my experience, the following scenarios have occurred:

1) I normally set myself a hand limit for the session (say 200), on hand 180 I get a bad beat, and I feel the evil rise. After a while I "wake up" on, say, hand 300. I realise that I've spent the passed 120 hands wishing cancer on the guy whilst still trying to recoup some losses, but I cannot leave the table.

2) If I get one-outed by some bum, I immediately leave the table and say "no poker for 24hours". Two hours later I'm back at my desk raging at the world.

I'm fully aware that I know I'm steaming (temples pulsing), but I can't snap out of it.

So, long story short, how does a person get their mind off a bad session whilst still in a tilt-funk?

Cheers

There's nothing fluffy about this question - unless we have different definitions of fluffy:)

The only way to correct this type of tilt is to do a lot of work away from the table to break down your Accumulated Tilt (or so I call it). Basically, in your mind, you have have collected anger/tilt over the years and now whenever you have a bad beat, or suck-out, it's like your mind is instantly flooded with emotion. So much emotion, that it overwhelms your mind and you lose control. Frankly, it's nearly impossible for you to be in control when the emotion is that strong.

The reason is that thinking is essentially how the mind maintains control. However, when emotions rise too high, they shut down the mind, and prevent you from being about to think, and thus maintain emotional control.

Which is why your job is to do work away from the table to break down this accumulated emotion, so they're is less of it to deal with and thus easier to maintain control. AND then you need to also get better at maintaining control during your session.

I'll be honest, this is the most difficult thing to accomplish in the mental game. The work you do off the table, has to be taken with the seriousness as though you're preparing for a poker life/death situation. I'm happy to help you work through some of it in the forum. If you can afford it, I'd definitely recommend getting my book, it's designed to help clearly lay out how to address a problem like this. Then, my help in the forum, would be much more productive.

Either way, what is is about a bad beat/suck out that causes you to get so angry?

Sorry, the post began fluffy, but became concrete, so I should've changed the first line - my bad!

Thanks for the offer, though I'm speaking more in general than specifics. I've definitely had these emotions at the beginning of my "poker career", but now I can recognise them brewing away and shut down before they get too much (thank you Tommy Angelo!). The greatest anti-tilt tactic ever: click "leave table" and go and do something productive (cooking or gardening are great for this!). If I'm on the end of consecutive bad beats, I run, not walk, to the exits!

My worst "tilt habit" is chasing losses; say I'm 5BB down, I'll stay a little longer than optimal - but again, this is something I'm working on.

I suppose I should've phrased my argument better. Basically, are there any tips to talk yourself out of playing under a cloud of tilt, or is it merely a case of recognising it, and convincing yourself that you're wasting your time? (This isn't exclusively tilt either, but sleep, hunger, drink - sub-optimal is sub optimal, I suppose tilt is the worst because there can be a sense of shame attached to it - you've always lost to a moron, right?!.)

Whilst I'm not immune from tilt (who is?), I wouldn't say that I play in an angry state of mind. I realise that I give someone the satisfaction of seeing me leave immediately following their one-outer on the river, but I do take satisfaction in the fact that they're not getting any more of my BBs.

(Apologies for the wall of text!)

no worries.

There are things you can do beyond recognizing it, but the next step is definitely the more complex part. Recognition is a huge first step - you have no chance of the second one with it out it.

You're on the right track with convincing yourself, but what is important is the specifics of what you're convincing yourself of. See, the anger that you're experiencing, even if it's at low levels is happening for a reason (Btw, there are tons of players who tilt in subtle ways that still affect their performance). What you want to say to yourself is a correction in the flaw causing the anger.

Figuring out the underlying cause of your anger can take a little bit of digging, but once you find the cause of your anger, the correction to it is what you want to say to yourself. You need to make sure that you're saying in the moments when tilt begins to show itself, and then you need to force yourself to playing longer.

I know that goes against your current strategy of quitting at the first sign of tilt, but ultimately, if you want to solve your tilt problem - and believe me there are many many clients of mine who have solved it - you need to be able to control your tilt, while at the table. Quitting is not a real solution, it's a way of managing tilt.

Does this help?

Hi Jared,

Hmmm... this is getting interesting.

Tilt, in my opinion, is entirely ego-based; I see it as being linked with how you perceive yourself , and how others perceive you. If you lose a hand to an inferior player, or you realise that you have a hole in your game through which someone else has driven a truck, it's obvious that something will begin to brew.

As an example of why I think it's ego based: you never feel as bad when you've realised you've missed value on a river bet as you do when you call a guy's river donk because you "just had to see". In the first instance, only you know you've made a mistake, in the second everyone knows (assuming everyone is watching).

I'm not sure why we should feel angry - these people you're playing don't mean anything to you, so who cares what they think? And if you've lost a hand through bad play, then you're not as great as you think you are, so get to work on that leak.

The next time I tilt, I'll follow your advice and try and work through it at the table. I imagine that to do so, you need to breakdown the anger, and find the root of it.

Additionally, I've used some of the techniques mentioned in the Silver psychology articles on here, which kind of "occupy your mind" and move it away from the tilt, which works for me also.

Thanks again!

Tilt often has a connection to the ego, but not always. So were on the same page, Ego to me is another word for confidence or identity. Ego is not inherently negative, and the goal is not to get rid of an ego. The goal is to resolve or fix the holes in a person's ego, that can cause anger, depression, anxiety, poor motivation, and so on.

That said, on the surface the anger you have toward other players seems illogical/irrational, there is still a legitimate reason. If we can figure out that reason, then you're a step closer to solving the problem, and fixing that hole in your confidence.

Regarding tilt, ideally yes, you need to find the root. You don't have to know it right away, but the sooner you find it the sooner you can get to working on it. One way to figure it out is to start to write down some of the specific thoughts you have at the time when your angry, or your confidence has taken a shot. Those thoughts often give clues into the root problem, and even though you logically know better, there's often some logic missing. It's that missing logic why the problem is never solved completely.

If you want some help deducing the root from your thoughts, post a few examples and I'll help you break them down.

Yw!

Originally posted by suaveplayer

Originally posted by JaredTendler

Hi!

Do you mind answering a few questions first, there are a few more details I'd like to have before giving you an answer. Regarding f#1 - what's your schedule like during the day? How many days do you play/week? How many hours/games?

Regarding #2 - What's it like for you during the times when you're not at your mental peak? Does it feel as though most other times things get jumbled in your head? Or like it's a messy desk and hard to navigate your thoughts? The simple way to be at your peak more is to remove the things that take you out of it. So, any details you can give to describe what it's like to not less than 100% mentally will help me understand the cause of it.

1- I go to college classes from 9:00AM to around 5:30PM, four days a week, plus from 1:30PM to 6:00 PM on Wednesdays. I try to play at least 2 hours a day, somedays I manage to put in 4 hours.

2- Both things I guess, when Im not at my peak my thoughts are kind of racing, hard to focus on one idea and keep the clutter aside, there are varying degrees of "mental pollution", but the messy racing mind is always there to some extent.

Sounds like you have a lot on your plate - racing thoughts are often a sign of being under pressure or some anxiety. Does that seem relevant to you.

One thing I'd suggest doing is taking more notes on your poker game. Cleaning out the clutter and getting you to focus more, and focus better later into the night gets easier when you have greater clarity on what you're trying to accomplish in your game. When I say notes, I mean from pure tatical/poker strategy sense. So your taking notes on your play after a session - the mistakes you made, things your noticing about opponents, creative (successful) plays that you can add to your game. Things like that. Then have some smaller notes already written that you can review before you play detailing common mistakes, which you can review especially when you'll play sessions at times you typically would be mentally off. That way, if you need something to break through the mess in you head, you know that you absolutely need to be correcting these mistakes. Do that, and you'll probably still play your B game. Maybe not your absolute best. But still pretty solid.

Make sense/help?

I'll be back on Monday or Tuesday to answer more questions.

First a quick spammy mention that my book is now up on Amazon.com. Barry and I are celebrating by offering a 35% discount off the regular price of $49.95 until next Friday. It's getting great reviews, and if any of you have read it - please post your own review.

Also, don't worry about the shipping times, all orders to Europe will arrive within 5 business days, and elsewhere within 12 days, not 21-42 days as amazon says.

Have a great weekend!

Awesome answers J-dawg.

Ok so I was going to ask this one in private, but I think actually there is no reason to not extend it to the PokerStrategy community.

I have, with some real success, managed to spend a long long period of time focussing only on the quality of my play, and not results. I would say 6 months to be exact, and in very very intense scrutiny. My warms ups are great, I am very consciously aware of what I need to be doing while playing, my warm downs and reviewing my hands are good too. I know the benefit of this, and as a result, my results have been very good.

However, six months in, and I am starting to slip. I am cutting corners with working on my game, cutting corners with my warm ups etc. I put this down to:

A) Some level of fatigue, as I have been working hard at it. I have been getting plenty of rest and breaks, so its not pure burnout.
B) Premature realization of mastery - I think I have learned these habits to the unconscious competence but havent quite yet.

My results have still been good, it certainly hasn't been running bad that has derailed this.

So, how would you advise I get over a rut/plateu? I am trying to remind myself to refocus, but it is getting tougher, and easier to fall into bad habits.

Originally posted by JaredTendler

Originally posted by Shevtshenko
Why is it that it gets so much harder to make even relatively easy decisions when you're losing and running badly compared to when you're up and running good? What's the thing that changes in our thought process? Is it just being too optimistic? Maybe that's not a question that can be answered without knowing the person but hopefully you can give your thoughts on this subject.

Well, there's always a personal component to the final answer, but generally speaking the issue comes down to how much mental space you actually have to be able to think.

The part of the brain that's responsible for thinking is called, Working Memory. When you actually have thoughts in your head, that's that part of the brain where it happens. There's been a lot of research done on working memory (started by the phone company), and what they've consistently found is that among all people, there's a limit to between 5-9 pieces of information that a person can have in working memory at any one time.

When emotions rise, even if just slightly, the emotional part of the brain becomes more active and actually begins to shut down the thinking part of the brain. Which means, if you could think about say 7 things when playing great, now you can only think about 5, or even 4. If you're really tilting you may only thing about 1 or 2 and the rest are purely automatic decisions.

The key answer to you question is that emotion is shutting down your ability to think, and even though it's subtle, if it's affecting your game you have to treat it like a big problem at the time and do your best to control/resolve that emotion.

Does that help/answer it?

Thanks. Yea that answers it. Hmm, any suggestions on how to improve this? Or should i just purchase your book? I've heard some good things about it, so i prly will anyway. gl with your sales.

This is truly an amazing thread!

I absolutely love it, and would like to thank you for providing it to us! I will definitely buy the book when I get the chance.

Keep up the good work!

Originally posted by JaredTendler

Originally posted by Dublimax
Hi Jared,

I have a question regarding running good / bad and how we play when it happens.

Unlike many people (from what I have read) I think I tend to play better when I am on a losing session/running bad.

e.g after an hour of play I am down let's say 2 stacks (I know I shouldn't check the results while playing but I can't ). Then I am like "ok come on Max let's get back on track" and I start focusing 200%, analyzing fully all the info, explaining all my moves etc...

Instead when I am winning/running hot I might relax more, lose focus a bit, play some draws that I shouldn't play, play to aggro in some spots etc....

Do you have any thoughts on this?

Edit: In fact if I look at my life time graph I usually have a downswing (or more accurately me playing bad) after running good.

Part of the answer to this pattern is right in your answer: Focus. Low focus = low performance. Here's why:

It all comes down to thinking. When you're super motivated to play well, it's that energy which drives your mind into the highest gear. That intense energy is tough to sustain day in and day out. Unless you really train for it. Without the need to force yourself into that gear, you naturally relax, which means you actually don't have the mental energy to think as deeply or intensely as you do when it's called upon.

Here's the key: Focus is driven by goals.

Your goals sound to me, to be mostly about money/results. Money/results matter, don't get me wrong. I'm not one of those guys who says just go out and do as well as you can. At the end of the day results are what it all comes down to. However, in poker, and in other games/sports, you ability to achieve results comes down to the quality of how you play relative to the demands of the game. I suggest that you set quality goals for every single time you play. Playing isn't just about how much you make, it's also about how well you played. Work your ass off to consistently put in that intense effort (or at least something close to it) and see what you can really accomplish on a consistent basis.

This help/make sense?

Yep makes sense.
One thing that I would like to add though. I don't think I am really driven by the amount of money I make but as you said it is hard to completely stand back from the results (which is how much you win or lose) because that's how we evaluate ourselves.
But I definitely need to set a goal before each session I play which to play focus 100%.

Thanks for the input.

Hey there!

I thought I had overcome tilt almost completely. But now after having experienced a larger downswing tilt has found its way into my game again..

Some occasions on which I tend to tilt is:

- after getting sucked out
- regular putting a lot of pressure on me which I "fail" to adjust to for the moment
- just loosing pots (big or small) over a period of time (e.g loosing several small/medium pots over half an hour)

The first point is actually something I used to deal with very well. But nowaydays, from time to time, a suck out can deteriorate my game a lot.

I am aware of how irrational it is. I mean why care about things you cannot control anyway... But yet I tend to dwell on hands where I get sucked out way too often. I often start thinking to myself something like, "why the hell did you call me there you stupid fish!??", "why does this always happen to me?!", "everytime I hit a good hand someone has to have me beat", "will this ever stop??!!" etc etc.. Frustration is the keyword here.

I guess much of it has to do with the fact that my bankroll is rather crippled after a larger downswing, and I want things to turn around quickly so that I don't have to be worrying about moving down a limit etc. I basically don't like the feeling of beeing on a thin line.

"Move down a limit then", you might say, but that is out of question because I am still sufficiently rolled for my limit, and do not want to play for less money without any good reason.

I would say that the second point is something that in itself doesn't cause the tilt. And by that I mean that it is not anything the triggers the tilt, but rather something that deteriorates an already existing tilt, a side effect.

For instance: lets say I've just lost a big pot where I got sucked out and now this regular is 3 betting me again for the third time in a row and I 4 bet him whereby he goes all in and I have to fold my weak hand. So I start to argue with myself that my play was soooo obivous and I'd be better off just folding the hand right away, although I know that it was a standard 4 bet bluffspot wih the given history, my holding etc.

The third point is similiar to the first one in its causes and effects so I wont get in any more detail with it.

Overall I would say that I am pretty tilt-aware in the sense that I know what causes my tilt and when I am on it. But what I do not know is why I can't overcome it when it happens over and over again for the same irrational reasons..

So I would just like to know if there is anything that you could point to that I haven't found out myself that could be the reason for my persisting tilt, and how I might overcome it.

Originally posted by JaredTendler
I'll be back on Monday or Tuesday to answer more questions.

First a quick spammy mention that my book is now up on Amazon.com. Barry and I are celebrating by offering a 35% discount off the regular price of $49.95 until next Friday. It's getting great reviews, and if any of you have read it - please post your own review.

Also, don't worry about the shipping times, all orders to Europe will arrive within 5 business days, and elsewhere within 12 days, not 21-42 days as amazon says.

Have a great weekend!

Sly!