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[Coaching] PLO Buffet

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riprlz
Joined: 06.11.2007

I would like to see some talking about how to evaluate vilains bluffing/value frequencies.

Like, lets say board is QT9ss and we are OOP with KJxx, we lead pot vilain call IP, we pot a blank turn and vilain call IP, than river pairs board or river brings flush. How do I evaluate if agains that vilain I should bet/fold, x/c or x/f vs and how this decesion relates with diferent betsizes, and how do you use the information when you get to the showdown to understand vilain tendencies better on future spots.

Also how do you play weak trips, when do you bet/call, bet/fold, dont bet etc.
And how do you evaluate how much a vilain is bluffing on these spots when you get a feeling he is raising flop cbets on paired boards more than he should.

Same goes for monotone boards.
ie. I flop a K high flush on a monotone board, I pot 4way and get raised, hand goes to showdown and vilain raised with a set. How do you use that information to understand best lines on future spots agains this opponent.


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JohnCenaFA
Joined: 29.12.2009

Hello Kyyberi!

I've checked out the first Buffet, it was great!
Could You tell some basic stuff for a beginner how to improve in the next coaching?
I would glad to hear about session reviewing and how to learn from it.

Thanks a lot!
I'll be there! :)


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Coach
Kyyberi
Joined: 09.07.2010

You have still tonight to request menu. So far we have couple of things on the plate but there is room for more!


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tonypmm
Joined: 11.01.2009

Well, a menu of two really heavy courses sounds good, as we had too little time to cover 3-4 topics the first time around. Just no particular topic sprang into my mind last week, and I was loaded by different things anyway. I think I can attend this Thursday, though :f_drink:


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Coach
Kyyberi
Joined: 09.07.2010

Added menu for tomorrow to the first post.


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MIStrZZZ
Joined: 22.01.2007

yo kyyberi no offense, but how come a player with hugely negative winrate on plo10 is coaching others?

JoePerson is you, right? Its nothing personal, i'm just interested how did this happen that you became a coach


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FlyingDutchm1n
Joined: 21.08.2012

Yes he is JoePerson I played 5PLO on stars zoom with him last year too was so surprised to see him there I recognized his name from a coaching where he showed his Pokerstars screenname...


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Coach
Kyyberi
Joined: 09.07.2010

Nice graph

We can talk about this tomorrow while having the dessert, so I hope you can join the coaching. I have no idea if that graph is close to the truth, cos at this computer I don't have the hands from the past.

But if those are all-time hands, it shows that I have been break evenish in PLO 10 for some time. Now please understand that I have played something like 50-75K hands a year totally for the past two years due to studying and working. And I know for sure that there is a lot of B and C game in those hands. I have been very open about this (you can see it in my private coaching thread and I have said it in earlier coachings) and I still am. Here are some of the more recent graphs for graph-lovers:

PLO50 from last year:

Hands from the site where I moved from the Stars this spring (in BB winnings):

I have always said that graphs don't mean anything, if they are posted by the player. It is so easy to fake a graph (will show you tomorrow), and in plo even bigger sample sizes might not be the truth. And for sure they don't necessarily tell the truth about the player's A game. The reason I am still coaching is because I believe that my A game is pretty good for lower stakes and my thinking process is pretty good even for the PLO100-200, and at least I can find ways to improve it for most of the players, regardless of the stakes they are playing. My own problem is that I play more B/C game than A game, something I have worked with for a longer time and I am still working. When I have had time to play so little in the last 2 years, there are a lot of not-so-serious sessions in it. So if you have seen me having fun at micros, it doesn't mean that I have even tried to play my best there.

All I ask is that people would judge my coachings based on the actual content, not the graphs. If you disagree with something that I say/teach, that is great! We have a discussion then! :)

edit: Actually I played about 200K hands totally at Stars last year, and steadily lost to Zoom. Made profit with the rakeback, but kept hitting my head to the wall with Zoom. There is something funny about it, me and Zoom don't come along. I played total of 6,5K hands only in PLO10 normal tables last year.


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vinn25RNMD
Joined: 20.07.2008

damn looking forward to the next one i play nothing but pot limit omaha luv the game


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Coach
Kyyberi
Joined: 09.07.2010

From here on we will have PLO Buffet once a month. The next one is scheduled to be held at 23rd of April. So feel free to request topics. This PLO Buffet will also replace PLO videos on some level, so if you have any ideas for PLO Videos feel free to offer those topics to the Menu too!


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JohnCenaFA
Joined: 29.12.2009

Hello!

I would like to see a lot of hand analysing w calculations but I'm omnivorous so looking forward to participate! :f_cool:


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Coach
Kyyberi
Joined: 09.07.2010

Feel free to post any interesting hands/spots.


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JohnCenaFA
Joined: 29.12.2009

Ty for the chance!

I'll post some in spoilers.

#1 - the opponent is a 90/20 fish (10 hands) I am not sure what to do at turn, I think we are way ahead againest his draws and way behing againest his made hand, that's the reason why I checked the turn

Spoiler

Poker Stars, $0.01/$0.02 No Limit Omaha Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: $2.48 (124 bb)
BB: $1.64 (82 bb)
UTG: $2.01 (100.5 bb)
Hero (MP): $3.36 (168 bb)
CO: $2.06 (103 bb)
BTN: $4.18 (209 bb)

Preflop: Hero is MP with A 9 Q Q
UTG folds, Hero raises to $0.07, CO folds, BTN calls $0.07, 2 folds

Flop: ($0.17) 3 K A (2 players)
Hero bets $0.10, BTN calls $0.10

Turn: ($0.37) 4 (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN checks

River: ($0.37) A (2 players)
Hero bets $0.18, BTN raises to $0.36, Hero calls $0.18

Results:

Spoiler

$1.09 pot ($0.04 rake)
Final Board: 3 K A 4 A
Hero mucked A 9 Q Q and lost (-$0.53 net)
BTN showed Q K 8 K and won $1.05 ($0.52 net)

#2 - no info about villain, at the flop I called only because in my opinion his range contains mostly AAxx and he can not really fold after his cbet at this flop so we do not have folding equity here
-turn fold because of the FD came, if he checked, I would have shoved there

Spoiler

Poker Stars, $0.01/$0.02 No Limit Omaha Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: $2 (100 bb)
BB: $2 (100 bb)
UTG: $0.27 (13.5 bb)
MP: $2.30 (115 bb)
CO: $3.45 (172.5 bb)
Hero (BTN): $5.85 (292.5 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BTN with 5 4 7 A
UTG calls $0.02, 2 folds, Hero raises to $0.09, SB folds, BB raises to $0.30, UTG calls $0.25 and is all-in, Hero calls $0.21

Flop: ($0.88) Q 6 5 (3 players, 1 is all-in)
BB bets $0.38, Hero calls $0.38

Turn: ($1.64) 9 (3 players, 1 is all-in)
BB bets $0.54, Hero folds

River: ($1.64) 9 (2 players, 1 is all-in)

Results:

Spoiler

$1.64 pot ($0.05 rake)
Final Board: Q 6 5 9 9
BB showed T J Q K and won $0.80 ($0.12 net)
UTG showed J 2 A A and won $0.79 ($0.52 net)
Hero mucked 5 4 7 A and lost (-$0.68 net)


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Coach
Kyyberi
Joined: 09.07.2010

I just noticed that there was wrong month in the topic and in the coaching info. Next PLO Buffet is in 5 days, and you have only 2 days left to post your requests. There is still a lot of room in the menu, so this is a good chance to get YOUR request to it!


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tonypmm
Joined: 11.01.2009

For the dessert (if you spend all the time discussing other useful topics, it's fine), I'd like to hear some thoughts on playing vs short stacks (40 bb or even much smaller if they have no top-up), especially in blind-vs-blind battles, or when I or the shortie are first in on the button (I think there are minraising and limp/calling ranges on the button - limp/repotting a premium hand is not viable with only 2 players left behind to act), or (optionally) HU (I'm starting a table and a recreational with a random stack and no top-up sits in).

If you have extra time left, you can discuss big-stack BvB play too; it's a tough situation when I have to steal wide but am OOP, so usually don't hit the flop well and don't have enough visibility.


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Coach
Kyyberi
Joined: 09.07.2010

Ok, I added the menu for the next Buffet (this Thursday) to the first post. See you all on Thursday!
(I hijacked the request for warming up from Skodljivec's video request thread, with his permission of course.)


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JohnCenaFA
Joined: 29.12.2009

Hey Kyyberi!

I post a few hands in spoilers in case you'll have time to analyse them. :f_thumbsup:

#1
pre: I tried to polarize my 3bet range IP (in case of 4bet I'll fold because I'll have been dominated a lot)
flop: checked behind because of the multidrawysh board, think I could get a lot of ch/r-s and I don't even have the As
turn: decided to bet, the Q is unlikely to help him because he checked the turn, think he would have bet w made hand

Spoiler

Poker Stars, $0.02/$0.05 No Limit Omaha Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: $3.67 (73.4 bb)
BB: $2.94 (58.8 bb)
UTG: $5 (100 bb)
MP: $4.41 (88.2 bb)
Hero (CO): $9.83 (196.6 bb)
BTN: $5.02 (100.4 bb)

Preflop: Hero is CO with J Q A K
UTG raises to $0.17, MP calls $0.17, Hero raises to $0.65, 4 folds, MP calls $0.48

Flop: ($1.54) 9 3 8 (2 players)
MP checks, Hero checks

Turn: ($1.54) Q (2 players)
MP checks, Hero bets $1, MP raises to $3.76 and is all-in, Hero calls $2.76

River: ($9.06) 3 (2 players, 1 is all-in)

Results:

Spoiler

$9.06 pot ($0.35 rake)
Final Board: 9 3 8 Q 3
MP showed 7 5 8 9 and lost (-$4.41 net)
Hero showed J Q A K and won $8.71 ($4.30 net)

#2
I'm ahead of the QT, too, so I decided to bet/shove my ass off

Spoiler

Poker Stars, $0.02/$0.05 No Limit Omaha Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: $7.80 (156 bb)
BB: $5.42 (108.4 bb)
Hero (UTG): $5.09 (101.8 bb)
MP: $4.17 (83.4 bb)
CO: $9.08 (181.6 bb)
BTN: $14.05 (281 bb)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 6 9 A A
Hero raises to $0.17, 2 folds, BTN calls $0.17, 2 folds

Flop: ($0.41) J A K (2 players)
Hero bets $0.30, BTN raises to $1.29, Hero raises to $4.26, BTN raises to $13.17, Hero calls $0.66 and is all-in

Turn: ($10.25) 9 (2 players, 1 is all-in)
River: ($10.25) 3 (2 players, 1 is all-in)

Results:

Spoiler

$10.25 pot ($0.40 rake)
Final Board: J A K 9 3
Hero showed 6 9 A A and won $9.85 ($4.76 net)
BTN showed 9 T T Q and lost (-$5.09 net)

#3
I'm totally unsure also pre and post what to do

Spoiler

Poker Stars, $0.02/$0.05 No Limit Omaha Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

Hero (SB): $7.38 (147.6 bb)
BB: $5.74 (114.8 bb)
UTG: $2.65 (53 bb)
MP: $5 (100 bb)
CO: $4.01 (80.2 bb)
BTN: $5.63 (112.6 bb)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q 4 J A
UTG folds, MP raises to $0.10, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.08, BB raises to $0.40, MP calls $0.30, Hero calls $0.30

Flop: ($1.20) J A K (3 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $0.55, MP calls $0.55, Hero raises to $3.35, BB raises to $5.34 and is all-in, MP folds, Hero calls $1.99

Turn: ($12.43) 2 (2 players, 1 is all-in)
River: ($12.43) 9 (2 players, 1 is all-in)

Results:

Spoiler

$12.43 pot ($0.48 rake)
Final Board: J A K 2 9
Hero showed Q 4 J A and lost (-$5.74 net)
BB showed J A Q T and won $11.95 ($6.21 net)
MP mucked and lost (-$0.95 net)

#4
At the turn is it better to check behind and try to bluffcatch the river if I improve?

Spoiler

Poker Stars, $0.02/$0.05 No Limit Omaha Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: $8.11 (162.2 bb)
BB: $9.80 (196 bb)
UTG: $9.22 (184.4 bb)
MP: $5 (100 bb)
CO: $5 (100 bb)
Hero (BTN): $7.36 (147.2 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BTN with J T K 9
UTG folds, MP raises to $0.15, CO folds, Hero raises to $0.45, 2 folds, MP calls $0.30

Flop: ($0.97) J 5 6 (2 players)
MP checks, Hero bets $0.70, MP calls $0.70

Turn: ($2.37) 4 (2 players)
MP checks, Hero bets $2.28, MP folds

Results:

Spoiler

$2.37 pot ($0.09 rake)
Final Board: J 5 6 4
MP mucked and lost (-$1.15 net)
Hero mucked J T K 9 and won $2.28 ($1.13 net)

#5
an interesting hand
Flop: call because there is a plenty of sets and top 2 pairs againest which I don't have fold equity + if he has some kind of multidraw we are ahead
Turn: raise - because of the miniature bet sizing I though he is capable of folding his hand even if I gave him a strong range, this bet was so strange (not sure if it's good thinking process)
River: is it better to just call him down and see what he has?

Spoiler

Poker Stars, $0.02/$0.05 No Limit Omaha Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: $5.37 (107.4 bb)
BB: $5.86 (117.2 bb)
Hero (UTG): $5.02 (100.4 bb)
MP: $5 (100 bb)
CO: $6.14 (122.8 bb)
BTN: $20.45 (409 bb)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A 7 A 3
Hero raises to $0.17, 3 folds, SB calls $0.15, BB folds

Flop: ($0.39) Q 5 K (2 players)
SB bets $0.37, Hero calls $0.37

Turn: ($1.13) 7 (2 players)
SB bets $0.20, Hero raises to $1.60, SB calls $1.40

River: ($4.33) 8 (2 players)
SB bets $0.25, Hero raises to $2.88 and is all-in, SB calls $2.63

Results:

Spoiler

$10.09 pot ($0.39 rake)
Final Board: Q 5 K 7 8
SB showed J Q K 5 and won $9.70 ($4.68 net)
Hero showed A 7 A 3 and lost (-$5.02 net)


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Coach
Kyyberi
Joined: 09.07.2010

Thanks for the hands!


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JohnCenaFA
Joined: 29.12.2009

My pleasure! :)


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JohnCenaFA
Joined: 29.12.2009

Hey Kyyberi!

I cannot see the Buffet at live coachings session, when it starts?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

got it


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