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Playing with call machine on your left

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ghaleon
Joined: 17.10.2007

So often we say dont play with aggressive player on your left. But how do you adjust if you have call machine (loose passive, LP) on your direct left? Implications I can quickly think about are:

- Stealing blinds become hopeful dream if LP alone calls like 80% of time
- You are getting much more often into multiway pots
- You have to be more honest postflop. Not just for being in multiway pots but also with LP usually being on sticky side
- Aggro players can place you into very tough spots with squeezes as 3bet is going to be lot bigger.

Of course postflop wise these sort of LP players can be very different. In general they tend to call way too much cbets. But after that they might fold quite a lot to further aggression. Some are very honest versus missed cbets but some actually get very aggro versus checks. Whatever its missed flop or turn cbet. Some are very sticky and you want to evade situations where you triple barrel with straight blocker and villain snap call random two pair. So of course any reads you get are important.

But yeah I find it often kind of tough to play with this kind of player. Or maybe tough is not good description but sort of frustrating. You know when you just dont connect to flops in strong way (from equity view) and you just keep folding a ton.

Well in these sort of cases we kind of have to tighten from early and mid positions especially. Like here is one hand I played today in PLO25:

Spoiler

So J987ss is not really money printing hand in first place from MP. But I also had very call happy player on CO. Like calling 70% of time perhaps. I dont think I could have done anything different in this hand outside of potentially open folding pre. But I think this hand kind of shows issue I have been talking about. Very often we get to multiway and if someone 3bets sizing is bigger. This hand I believe is open raise in GTO even from EP though very marginal (I might be wrong). But it assumes hands like CO here had (AQT3sss) are folding and we are often in HU pot. This of course in small stakes is often not the case. Especially with LP player on direct left. People are making sometimes really big mistakes postflop but especially in these 3bet pots with low SPR there is really not that much edge good player can get. Table wise here there had been very little 3bets so it was not something I expected to happen often.

I think flop shove is only option when I have nut gs with my mediocre fd and wrap around T probably give couple percent equity as well.

Game #1727464053: Table €25 PL - 0.10/0.25 - Pot Limit Omaha - 16:44:31 2022/08/30
Seated players
Seat 1: JoeStALLIN (€26.45)
Seat 2: Astresa (€23.90)
Seat 3: Jada33 (€30.08)
Seat 5: Pillekepak (€33.51)
Seat 6: GGJako (€2.86)
Blinds and button
Pillekepak has the button
GGJako posts small blind €0.10
JoeStALLIN posts big blind €0.25
Hole cards
Dealt to Astresa 8♥:9♠:J♦:7♦:
Preflop
Astresa raises €0.85 to €0.85
Jada33 calls €0.85
Pillekepak folds
GGJako folds
JoeStALLIN raises €3.25 to €3.50
Astresa calls €2.65
Jada33 calls €2.65
Flop 5♦:T♦:4♣:
JoeStALLIN bets €10.60
Astresa raises €20.40 to €20.40, and is all-in
Jada33 raises €26.58 to €26.58, and is all-in
JoeStALLIN calls €12.35, and is all-in
Uncalled bet returned to Jada33: €3.63
Showdown
Turn J♠:
River J♣:
JoeStALLIN shows K♥:A♣:3♣:A♥:, Two pairs, Aces up
Astresa shows 8♥:9♠:J♦:7♦:, Three of a kind, Jacks
Jada33 shows Q♦:A♦:T♠:3♦:, Two pairs, Jacks up
Astresa wins main pot, €69.65
JoeStALLIN wins side pot #1, €4.94
Summary
Total pot €76.90 Rake €2.31

So in short I have often found table becoming easier to play when this sort of player leaves table and I can actually get small to medium pots down way more often. One adjustment is of course wider value betting versus LP but when multiway that can also get kind of tricky.


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4 replies
efkay
Joined: 25.03.2005

hmm, where to start?

So J987ss is not really money printing hand in first place from MP. But I also had very call happy player on CO.

I dont see ow this justifies the openraise? If you have call happy people behind you, tighten up your preflop range to exploit.

Do we really need to call the squeeze with this top gap rundown? I would still openraise even knowing there are call happy player behind but I fold to squeeze due to lack of nuttiness and probably multiway hand at low spr where I cant really escape. But I also have to admit I dont have learning material when to call vs squeezes, I just looked that up recently.

so how to adjust accordingly: Well, you have to be very patient and aquire reads onyour villains. you notice very quick at first if they are tight or loose. obv you adjust by openraising more or less. now the more tricky part is passive vs agressive, and especially if preflop is same style as postflop.

even with stats you cant be sure: I had a vpip70 guy recently that had almost no PFR and only 15 Agression postflop. He still managed to know when he has absolutely zero SDV and came up with some 60% bluffs 3way with pure air, just because people are checking. I would have never known if I did not saw and noted.

some guys never 3bet preflop, call almost everything but find the best way to win is stabbing 100% vs checks. other LP players simply call a backdoor gutshot just because they have seen you cbetting OTF. others are not only LP but callingstations and call 3 streets with 8 high flopped flush no matter if you pot.

you need to figure out what they are doing. now you dont have to tighten a GTO range that much since that is not exploitable. but as you mentioned i.e. stealing blinds you can tighten up here, reduce cbetting heavily and start valuebetting bigger instead.

if you know they raise your bets only with nuts you can obv bet lighter and dont need to strengthen a checking range. you can also easily let go marginal hands because they just have it.

other than that there is no magi trick: you simply are playing PLO OOP which is the hardest to master and imo one of the most important cases to win


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Super Moderator
VorpalF2F
Joined: 02.09.2010

I think that those adjustments apply to almost all poker games.
They certainly apply in draw and stud games.


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Coach
Kyyberi
Joined: 09.07.2010

Last thing I would do versus passive calling station is to tighten up my range.

If there is aggro on the table, THAT would lead me to tighten up. But just versus passive calling station, I would open up my ranges. Classical calling station never outplays you, and you should have really good control for the pot size.

Of course positions matter, and in Ghaleon's example it shouldn't be surprise that the pot is going to be multiway. MP open, CO calls most of the times and that creates the domino effect. From early positions, play your normal ranges, as they should be already good for multiway possibility.

As said earlier, there are different types of call-happy players. Some are aggressive postflop and some are not. Some have an idea with their aggression, some are making "suicide bluffs" (bluffs that have 0 strategy or thought behind them, done in bad spots).

If the opponent is passive postflop, the position doesn't matter as much as it usually does. Hero should have control of the pot, unless passive opponent has hit something and bets/raises.


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Coach
Kyyberi
Joined: 09.07.2010

What goes to J987, it seems to be quite on the threshold. I have two different small stakes sims, one with 3% uncapped rake and one with 3,5% 2,5bb cap. Uncapped doesn't open it, capped opens (actually opens J9 and J8 suited, not the J7s version) and it's virtually break even in the sim.


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